Dane69. I haven't played with you yet, though if you go head to head with rooz I have your respect. NAP Stands for Non aggression pact. Just a fancy word for "peace deal" you agree to not attack me, if I Don't attack you. Doesn't guarantee anything else. Welcome (back?) dane69

I guess should post here, because it's sort of popular now and I have to be trendy.
Nojo......umm......he's a good ally to me and I can't remember a time where he lied to me (but Zyxe did, he's a liar) we've had some great games and it's also funner when nojo is around.

Aclonicy!

Well, started a long time ago, we were in the first round of the TDT. Except we didn't even really talk. Anyway, after that we worked together, you got a whole lot better at the game than I did, I played a whole lot more than you did. But dang, you're good at this game. Youve got an almost 50% gold/game ratio, a very impressive feat. You're diplomatically sound, although your biggest feature is your tactics. You can screw around with anyone however you feel like screwing around with them. What I'm trying to say is, you're good. And funny too, most of the time. I'm still not sure how I feel about your "sick burns"

nojo34 wrote:NAP Stands for Non aggression pact. Just a fancy word for "peace deal" you agree to not attack me, if I Don't attack you. Doesn't guarantee anything else.

I don't agree. I think that aggression could be a number of things other than just attacking (Of course, the key is to discuss the terms clearly when making said NAP, so that both parties have a chance to understand and agree.)

I consider all of these to violations of a NAP, and if someone with whom I have a NAP does them, I consider that NAP dissolved:
Attacking an outpost of mine.
Attacking an outpost I will clearly own when your sub arrives, even if I do not own it when you launch.
Sending single driller subs through my territory.
Gifting my known enemy.
Funding my known enemy.
Stealing by pirate any gifts meant for me.
Giving information to anyone about my queen, my specs, my hires, my driller movement or placement, or other such pertinent things to attacking me.

That's all I can think off the top of my head. Sure, this is considerably more strict than "hey, don't attack me," but when I make deals I intend to stick with them. If you are an ally of mine, we're fighting for medals together.

That said...

Mathwhiz9!
I enjoy playing with Math for lots of reasons. He's funny and friendly. His style is considerably different than mine, both in diplomatic and tactical strategy, so watching him is interesting (and I often feel I learn new things). More than anything else, Math keeps me on my toes. And it isn't just because he is BY FAR the most experienced Subterfuge player there is.
Why?
Because I have never heard him commit to a deal with me, ever. He is, in my opinion, the Lord of Non-committal. Maybe that is just me - he definitely seems to make serious alliances - but when I approach him considering peace or an alliance or an idea to fight someone...the answer is almost always "maybe" in some form. Instead of yes or no there are lots of responses like, "yeah, that might be a good idea," or "I could probably do that," or "let me think about it." Because of this, I am forced to always keep an eye on him. We've had lots of games where we worked together, even more where we have had a nice and peaceful border, but never a game where I was 100% confident he wasn't going to hit me at anytime.

So, at least for me, playing with Math is never boring.

Mm1. Well, he certain sticks to his rules of the NAP. We've had some conflicts over proper ethics in the NAP, but he is still an excellent player. I've fought him two times and beat him neither one. Even when it was a 2v1 he held out and took an edge on me. A brilliant strategist who is definitely not one to attack attack without a large group of allies behind you.

mm1menace wrote:

nojo34 wrote:NAP Stands for Non aggression pact. Just a fancy word for "peace deal" you agree to not attack me, if I Don't attack you. Doesn't guarantee anything else.

I don't agree. I think that aggression could be a number of things other than just attacking (Of course, the key is to discuss the terms clearly when making said NAP, so that both parties have a chance to understand and agree.)

I consider all of these to violations of a NAP, and if someone with whom I have a NAP does them, I consider that NAP dissolved:
Attacking an outpost of mine.
Attacking an outpost I will clearly own when your sub arrives, even if I do not own it when you launch.
Sending single driller subs through my territory.
Gifting my known enemy.
Funding my known enemy.
Stealing by pirate any gifts meant for me.
Giving information to anyone about my queen, my specs, my hires, my driller movement or placement, or other such pertinent things to attacking me.

That's all I can think off the top of my head. Sure, this is considerably more strict than "hey, don't attack me," but when I make deals I intend to stick with them. If you are an ally of mine, we're fighting for medals together.

That said...

I totally disagree ! putting your rules to NAP will make the agreement really shady and give both players the opportunity to break it . In my experience the more explicit the agreement , the more reliable it is .
So if I have a NAP with someone , Im not gonna hide gifting things to who(m)ever I want . I know many people think the same about NAP too.

aclonicy wrote:Even when it was a 2v1 he held out and took an edge on me.

Actually, that fight started as a 3v1 (Assuming you are referring to the Nojo Tournament Finals, it was you and Nojo and Radio tripling me at the start. Oh, and btw...Math CAME IN 4th!).

roozbeh wrote:I totally disagree ! putting your rules to NAP will make the agreement really shady and give both players the opportunity to break it . In my experience the more explicit the agreement , the more reliable it is .
So if I have a NAP with someone , Im not gonna hide gifting things to who(m)ever I want . I know many people think the same about NAP too.

I do have high expectations. Part of that simply comes from my experience in this game; In most cases, deals that are discussed before to which they are agreed are far less likely to be broken. If the NAP was an acronym for "No Attacking Pact," of course that would be the only rule. And Rooz, you're right - lots of players want to have less restrictive NAPs; that is the exact reason I like to have it be more detailed!
But I do not agree that adding these extra things makes the agreement more "shady." I think it takes away the shady behavior of the players. It takes away those other things that I consider to be "aggressive."

For example:
If someone can make peace with me, but meanwhile gifts specs and drillers to another player I am fighting, who is using those specs and drillers to attack me - well, both players are basically fighting me. Why do I have peace with that someone? It is only for their safety or gain, and not my own. They are helping someone else fight me, but I need to give a notice to attack them? Nonsense.

Or another example:
Someone has a NAP with me, but then sends a few single drillers through my territory. Unless I have asked for these, the only thing they allow is for other player's pirates (and most specifically, queen hunter combos) to enter in to my area with speed. Is this person my friend? No! Is this person helping me? No! Is this person at peace with me?
Not anymore.

mm1menace wrote:Or another example:
Someone has a NAP with me, but then sends a few single drillers through my territory. Unless I have asked for these, the only thing they allow is for other player's pirates (and most specifically, queen hunter combos) to enter in to my area with speed. Is this person my friend? No! Is this person helping me? No! Is this person at peace with me?
Not anymore.

I was myself at a position that few known players (labled as really trustworthy in this game ) had a NAP with me so they gift all of their stuff to another player which was really far from me to attack me . Im not saying you are wrong about the stuff and I do agree with you that more detailed deal maybe last longer now that I think about your words but a NAP for itself means no direct attacking and gifting and funding enemy or anything wont really break it .also Details like not gifting enemy has its weak points and should be wrote really carefully since at least I am going to find a way to break it without losing my trustworthiness lol .
But lets stop "Juanama-ing" the argument and maybe in future math put this to a poll so we know how people think about a NAP .


-------

Menace is a really logical person and really calm , I only see him once really pissed . He deserve to be on top5 and he is going down that road . Also to add to his real personality , look at how admirable he is when I see everytime he argues try to say other person is right about something and remove the tense from the argument .

bangerz wrote:so i have nojo math and silver?

Edited:
I have nothing good to say about Roozbeh. Played a game with him where he was constantly trying to connive against me. When I called him out on it and sent 100 subs in his direction he called me a backstabber and ranted. I have never had the displeasure of playing with such an arrogant asshat. You are not as good as you think.

Just saw your edit.
Fuck , do you really believe in what you say? Lol
We had a fucking NAP when you attacked me and I called you a backstabber in private chat ? Do you want me to bring you a present or maybe a pizza? Lol
Sorry guys I know its against the spirit of the topic but his side of story is too much selfish .

Ps: that isnt even one third of my answers

Rooz,

Your constant and incessant cockiness, your never-ending conniving behind my back (validated by multiple other players), your selfishness.

NAP is up to interpretation, but when you pull shady shit like that on me, you bet I'm going to attack you. And also you throw around "backstab" so liberally. I utterly abhor players who rely on screaming "backstab backstab" like a whiny bitches. I was getting eliminated, sick of your shit so I sent you 100 drillers at one outpost before I died. Then you get all bitchy. Grow up and make some friends.