Bangerz!

First ran across him in the subterfuge USA/Canada game, where I had the fortune of being on his team. He's a good tactician and a great coach, shouting encouragement and advice at his teammates and fellow Americans when the fight looked impossible. He went on to be a terrifying adversary in a 4v4 tournament, where my team pulled off a narrow win when one of his teammates resigned unexpectedly.

In all, I find Bangerz to be a wonderfully social friend and a terrifying adversary.

Lolololol I find this NAP shit to be rather silly. My first game back from my seven month hiatus I broke the first NAP I ever agreed to cuz they guy was being shady af: not responding to me, shuffling troops around, plus I was hearing from others that he was gonna move on me.

So I attacked him and he went into the public chat and whined and whined and whined and cussed me out and gave me a negative medal. I lawl-ed so fucking hard at this (presumably) child. This game is (or at least it was) about working people. It's about fooling people. It's about trusting and not trusting people. AND it is about tactics and strategy. It has turned into a strictly strategic game with less focus on the diplomacy aspect of things.

When I first started playing subz, part of the fun was having to leave that assassin and 50 drillers at that mine by your ally, cuz you just didn't know. The community was relatively small, so we were constantly backstabbing and lying to the same people who we were friendly with the game before. There was no "omg omg omg my reputation will be ruined and I will be known as a traitor" thoughts to be had. I remember the first time I ever heard someone mention a 24 hour courtesy notice my allies all laughed at him. He was undoubtedly the best player at the time, so many people were afraid to attack him anyway, so many people abided. This NAP shit and how serious people seem to take it has spoiled an aspect of the game for me. Much less exciting.

THAT BEING SAID, I do love this game and I can evolve. I can play this new game where reputation seems to be so important and people take things so seriously that they judge me from game to game. I can study the rules of the NAP and play along. I felt justified in breaking my first NAP, but I understand that I will: "forever be labeled as a traitor" and will have to work tirelessly to re-polish my reputation

dane69 wrote:
Lolololol I find this NAP shit to be rather silly.
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This game is (or at least it was) about working people. It's about fooling people. It's about trusting and not trusting people. AND it is about tactics and strategy. It has turned into a strictly strategic game with less focus on the diplomacy aspect of things.
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THAT BEING SAID, I do love this game and I can evolve. I can play this new game where reputation seems to be so important and people take things so seriously that they judge me from game to game.

I mostly agree with what you are saying here, Dane. What I was saying before is exactly what you are talking about; breaking a NAP with someone because of their "shady" actions. Whether someone else wants to define "aggressive" only as attacking, I do not. If a player is plotting against me, I have no intention of keeping peace - notice or not.

Since there have not been any major updates, the tactical side of the game has not changed much. Players have determined what they think are the strongest strategies and attempt to recreate them the best they can. That said, I do not think that diplomacy has less focus now; in fact, with the major stratagem blueprints all fairly well known, I think that diplomacy is inherently more important. I just think that more diplomatic approaches have emerged, the meta has shifted to accommodate them, and people are using *NEW* tricks to do their lying and backstabbing. That is why I use NAPs the way I described them earlier - in order to combat these tricky current maneuvers.

In this fashion, it seems to me that the game has become more nuanced, more complex, and in my opinion, more fun. Admittedly, I was not around for the beginning stages of the game like you were. If I had been, perhaps I would have drastically different thoughts.

There is one other major component to why diplomacy has changed so markedly; people have figured out that more often than not, they find their greatest success when they have at least one, and often two, strong allies. I'm sure this was the case even early in the game. Due to this, you will see players try to make gold-silver and gold-silver-bronze deals very early in the game, or even pre-game. Of course, this has also caused a number of problems, most notably a dramatic increase in multibox players and/or long term multi-game alliance deals or teams - but that is an entirely different subject.

This response turned quite a bit longer than I expected, so lastly, the community is still very small. If you play in nonrated games, you might see lots of new players in every game or have games in which you have never played with anyone (though beware of Math or Aclonicy hiding behind one of there many alts ). That is not the case in the higher rated games, of course; that's why reputation is so important. For me, I only play rated games and forum organized games, so I know virtually every player in every game. My previous experience tells me with whom I am better off making deals - and who to avoid.

And to keep the thread rolling...

Dane69!

I have played exactly 1 (ONE!) game with you. This is the game you were referring to above, for clarity for others.

We made a NAP pre-game. There was talk about forming something more significant, but we never really had the chance. I found you to be pleasant, but not overly friendly - mostly about the business at hand. I started gifting you drillers about seven hours in to the game.

You broke a NAP on day 2. As you said, it was broadcasted out in public chat, and there was a quite funny mock trial to determine your guilt. I did not speak up during this court case, except to joke around, but in my opinion - your breaking of the NAP was completely justified (Sorry, Simian ). You had sniffed out some scheming. To this, I give you great credit, though I cannot say how hard or easy this may have been.

As far as tactics go, without watching the replay and going just from memory, you were at a significant disadvantage because you had to fight on multiple sides and you had overall subpar specialist hires. You survived the attempted gang-bang, however, and I will give you credit for this, as well.

If you stick around, I will see you again soon. And we'll hammer out a detailed NAP or something.

There have always been "gold-silver-bronze" deals, though in the past you had to EARN and PROVE your trustworthiness, instead of simply agreeing to a NAP. I digress. I don't want y'all to think that I will not agree and abide to your NAPs, because I love this game and am prepared to change along with it (though I have ZERO regrets about attacking Simian, that game was fucking hilarious and he is a sourpuss.) The mock trial was one of the funniest public chat discussions that I have been apart of

Ok I thought I was done but I am not: I guess what I am actually trying to say is that I loved how I could start a new game and it did not matter who was in that game. I never worried about the fact that I lied to Braxo in the game before or that I backstabbed Chewy and took his mine two games before that. It did not seem to have as huge of an effect. I don't want anyone to view me as a friend or an enemy or a liar just because we had a certain relationship in another game. I did whatever I had or felt that I needed to do in order to benefit myself.

ALSO FUCK THESE TEAMS OF PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW EACH OTHER INTO THE SAME GAMES AND MAKE THE SAME THREE WAY TEAMS FUCK FUCK FUCK THAT

Me and dane understand each other and I really like him . Totally honest and trustworthy, rich in strategy and diplomacy and he is really mature unlike his ally(no I wont let go of bangerz lol) but tbh he is really cool and I hope to be on his team any time possible . He is really friendly and has an awesome personality . And he knows the game better than me

hi dane <3

Awww Rooz, this was 10x sweeter than mine. Thanks for the kind words, mate. Glad to have met you

Also—hi bangerz

Bangerz is my subterfuge crush. But he is like that crush that you like at first and then realize they like you back but then they do something kinda shady with someone else so you feel confused and alone...and then you move to Ukraine and don't see them for seven months until one day you get an iphone again. And you invite them (to a game) over but receive no reply...so you lose hope and your mind slowly starts to forget what once was and could have been...THEN one day, out of the blue, they just show up at your doorstep (on your border in a pre-game lobby) and all is as it once was.

This guy is funny. He is tactically strong. He is willing to help his allies (he gifted me his FIRST hire last game cuz I needed a combo, and he was so confident that he could take ayrm, which in hindsight was maybe not the best plan for him...) I just like talking to him. And he is one of the only players who (I think) likes talking to me too—I can be chatty af, be warned. Our last game ended abruptly, much like our relationship. He was willing to do whatever he could in his dying moments to benefit his teammates. He tried giving us his territory early, but we held out hope. Very admirable.

The game before this, however, as I alluded to above, ended somewhat sourly. Basically he ended up staying more loyal to another team of allies and sort of left me out in the cold. Which is understandable, they all benefitted from it. It just goes to show that I don't even view him as a lifelong ally or enemy, I just want him in my games so we can joke and chat and shit.

that was sweet bb thx

I think Ive played all of 3 or 4 games with dane but it feels like weve been subz friends forever.

Basically everything he's said about those games are true. I love him. He always keeps a great attitude and fun to be around. One of the only players I enjoy talking to about life. We get each others' jokes and finish each others' sentences. I'm glad he's back and kicking ass. I'd do anything for him.