Our first (and probably last) game of Subterfuge lasted for 10 days and will end in about 24 hours. Here's a couple of thoughts I wanted to share with you - not because I don't like the game, but because the game is difficult to enjoy despite the fact that I really like it. It's not a real review, it's more of an impression.

Mind that my point of view might be skewed - I work at a gamedev company and played the game with my work buddies - people I see 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

The main problem of the game is that it's overwhelming. It takes up a lot of your free time. It makes you want to check your phone and/or tablet at 3 am. It makes you go out on a cigarette break even if you don't smoke, so you can negotiate alliances. At the beginning, we thought that the long time-span will make the game casual. It was a big mistake. To optimally play the game, you have to constantly monitor your opponents, be awake at odd hours to respond to a scheduled order - especially when players use a Pirate+Navigator+Martyr/Assassin combo. We had at least a few moments when timing to the last minute was crucial. At first, it was quite fun. But after a few days, it became frustrating and tiring. Everyone (and I really mean everyone) wanted the game to end after a full week; one player got eliminated just before the weekend and he was overjoyed because he felt liberated. We probably won't play another game - most of the team doesn't want to play it again, and I'm the only one who spent his money on a L2 clearance. And even for me, this was a very tiresome playthrough.

Are there any ways to change this? Maybe you could add a time multiplier (or just a "blitz" variant), so the game wouldn't last so long (3-4 days would be great); maybe the player hosting the game could set some kind of pause for a specified time (usually night hours) so that you could have some time off. I really don't know. I'd love to get back to the game, but I really don't have the time and energy for another exhausting match - and my buddies feel the same.

First of let me say that I have played a lot of online browser games like ogame, the crown, space pioneers etc. . In these games you can only be good if and only if you played for 24/7 (to a time when they were free to play…)!
I woke up every 30 minutes at night for this was the shortest way anyone could be attacking me on….
In comparison to that this game is very casual.  Since I live in another time zone then most of the players I am being attacked constantly at night…but I don’t care. There is no need to get up at night since the subs take a long time to fly Sure sometimes it can be too late if you wake up to be there before your attacker…but then you just did not plan well enough. (That’s the big feature here…you can plan for what happens next.)
Now I play when watching TV in the evening and only have to check at work if everything is going as planned. Sure sometimes it is not and I’ll have to exceed my lunch break a little but that’s it.
Frankly I do not understand how you and your colleagues can be eager for a game to end. The only time I want a game to end is if I’m first place and nothing happens. I guess your problem was that you played with your colleagues who pushed each other into madness by playing nonstop. It happened to me only once in the past few months that I had an opponent that was very active and it took me lots of effort to stay on the upside. We both where online and I was fake attacking him with canceling the attack at 9 minutes so he would start his subs while I could reschedule. I only noticed after 30 minutes that he was doing the same.
I feel that if you were granted your wish of 3xSpeed that you would have to play 3 days with no break. ^^ It will definitely not make the game any more relaxed or casual.

umpusten wrote:First of let me say that I have played a lot of online browser games like ogame, the crown, space pioneers etc. . In these games you can only be good if and only if you played for 24/7 (to a time when they were free to play…)!
I woke up every 30 minutes at night for this was the shortest way anyone could be attacking me on….
In comparison to that this game is very casual.  Since I live in another time zone then most of the players I am being attacked constantly at night…but I don’t care. There is no need to get up at night since the subs take a long time to fly Sure sometimes it can be too late if you wake up to be there before your attacker…but then you just did not plan well enough. (That’s the big feature here…you can plan for what happens next.)
Now I play when watching TV in the evening and only have to check at work if everything is going as planned. Sure sometimes it is not and I’ll have to exceed my lunch break a little but that’s it.
Frankly I do not understand how you and your colleagues can be eager for a game to end. The only time I want a game to end is if I’m first place and nothing happens. I guess your problem was that you played with your colleagues who pushed each other into madness by playing nonstop. It happened to me only once in the past few months that I had an opponent that was very active and it took me lots of effort to stay on the upside. We both where online and I was fake attacking him with canceling the attack at 9 minutes so he would start his subs while I could reschedule. I only noticed after 30 minutes that he was doing the same.
I feel that if you were granted your wish of 3xSpeed that you would have to play 3 days with no break. ^^ It will definitely not make the game any more relaxed or casual.

Completely agree.

Totally agree with geheime that this game can lead to a certain amount of obsession and lost sleep. However, I think that it's a case wherein a player's obsession with winning allows the game to become an obsession. In both games where I've won, I played way too much and exhibited the same behaviors geheime describes (waking at night, taking lengthy breaks etc).

I believe the blitz option described would just lead to even more and longer periods of play due to the need to react even quicker.

I do believe an option that the game creator could check to allow a daily 2, 4, 6 or 8 hour "pause" would be great. People that don't like the pause could skip over the game and those for whom the pause time frame was off could do the same. No harm, no foul.

Of course the real solution is to realize that it's not really the game, it's the player. I've played one "relaxed" game and am five days into another. I placed fourth in the first and will probably end up fourth or fifth in the other.

So, rather than give up on a great game, I will work on gradually trying to improve from 4th or 5th to 3rd or 4th without adding time in game.

I think as you play more games you start to pick up general player behaviors and start to recognize certain strategies and tactics - this helps with the paranoid checking at all hours.

With experience, when you start to see certain sub movements, outpost make-ups, and specialist hires you can predict what movements may be in 12 hours or so and help reposition yourself to mitigate risks.

As I've played in around 20 games at this point with some degree of success, I don't check nearly as often as I did when played my first few games. It's when a player does something unpredictable instead of checking I learn simple messages help clarify what they're thinking. If you need more information on a player, sometimes their neighbors can provide the intel you need.

I do do a check before bed and see what could be the worst thing happen in the 8-9 hours and make adjustments to counter it if necessary when I wake up.

Braxo wrote:I think as you play more games you start to pick up general player behaviors and start to recognize certain strategies and tactics - this helps with the paranoid checking at all hours.

With experience, when you start to see certain sub movements, outpost make-ups, and specialist hires you can predict what movements may be in 12 hours or so and help reposition yourself to mitigate risks.

As I've played in around 20 games at this point with some degree of success, I don't check nearly as often as I did when played my first few games. It's when a player does something unpredictable instead of checking I learn simple messages help clarify what they're thinking. If you need more information on a player, sometimes their neighbors can provide the intel you need.

I do do a check before bed and see what could be the worst thing happen in the 8-9 hours and make adjustments to counter it if necessary when I wake up.

I definitely agree. I've played this game for a couple months now, and I definitely check less often than I used to. However, I do better. It's all about prediction. Only rarely do I wake up to a board state that I didn't expect.
The paranoid need to check that a few people have described here I think is rooted in a misconceived idea of game pace and poor use of the time machine. While yes, sometimes the timing comes down to the minute, you should be aware of that battle, move, hire, etc. for 12-24 hours beforehand, and you should have your orders scheduled so that you only have to check periodically to ensure that nothing has changed. (I will say that the notifications are vital to my play style. While some people complain about the barrage of notifications, they make it so I don't have to check the game as often. I'll get back to that.)
Whenever I check the game, before logging out, I always scroll back and forth through the whole 48 hr prediction of the time machine so I can get a vague idea of what the board looks like (key word being "vague"). I spend more time looking at my neighbors than I do at myself. Eventually I have a good idea of their options for the next 12+ hours, and based on what I know of them, I can come up with a couple of predictions for what they'll do. This keeps the paranoia levels down. The game seems a lot more manageable when I'm worrying about 3 possible attacks than 300 possible attacks.
With experience, I've been able to hold the board in my head so that when a notification goes off, I don't have to even check my phone to know the effects of that notification ("My enemy launched a sub carrying 46 drillers from Smithrand to Solo? Crap, looks like I won't be able to hold that outpost. Maybe a tactical retreat? Can that Inspector get there in time?" all runs through my head before unlocking my phone, so that by the time I get the app open, I already know what I'm going to do in response.) The game gets easier to manage the more you play it. I normally play 2-3 games at a time now.

One side note: I read an article (http://www.vice.com/read/subterfuge-shows-us-that-some-games-should-never-be-played-with-friends-730) which recommended that you don't try the game with your friends. I disagree, but only mildly. You'd have been better off trying a game or two alone first before trying with your coworkers, I think. It's a vicious game, and everyone involved should have a grasp on the diplomacy (and specifically the cutthroat side of it) before trying to play together.

Yeah, i check in on the game pretty frequently when i'm not at work or with my GF, but most of the time i'm not doing anything crucial just playing with the time machine to look at my options.

I've played more than a dozen games now and only once did i ever feel the need to interupt my sleep schedule for play, and i generally do pretty well.

I think what the other players have posted here is mostly true. As you get more familiar with the game, you get better at predicting what will or can happen and thus don't have to spend as much time worrying and checking. Though there are definitely times where the game really does require you to be on at crucial moments to play optimally.