Such is the price for trying to logic with gameplay. They never go really well with each other.

@pandasecret one thing that occurred to me, what if the subs were faster? If we stick to the Europa plot, obviously it's the future, and the subs might be a bit faster than real-life. Or did I forget that you can only go so fast underwater without having all the water 'eating' away the hull?

mrhax wrote:@pandasecret one thing that occurred to me, what if the subs were faster? If we stick to the Europa plot, obviously it's the future, and the subs might be a bit faster than real-life. Or did I forget that you can only go so fast underwater without having all the water 'eating' away the hull?

True, the highest speed on Earth for a submarine was the Soviet K-222 reaching the top speed of 44.7 knots, while the average "fast pace" was 35 knots. The average nuclear sub has an avg speed of 25 knots and a fast speed of 33 knots.

Today (http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1887 ... to-reality), scientists are researching supercavitation with submarines (have been shown successful in torpedoes allowing them to reach speeds of 200 knots like the British Spearhead Torpedo), which basically create a gas bubble around a submarine allowing for less friction and for the sub to use rocket motors instead of traditional propellers. However, those would be more cone shaped while the subs shown in the game are rounded with propellers, so that isn't likely.

Using the same calculations as last time but assuming subs move at 45 knots increases the circumference to 11122 km, the radius to 1770 km, and the SA to 39,374,577 km. This would put the world of Subterfuge at 162% size of Europa, or 108% the size of our moon! This is significantly bigger than my last calculation, and makes a bit more sense in terms of planetary size.

*cough* nerds *cough*

There's one major flaw in all of your calculations....
You're all assuming its a sphere
Its not, because if you spin a sphere on the horizontal axis the map would be upside down. Spinning it on the vertical axis would make the thing the right way up. Its why google street view doesn't let you scroll past the bottom (in google street view you are literally inside a sphere of pictures dis. Its something to do with the vertical thing. Thats what makes the ground always on the bottom but never slanted or upside-down.
I think its actually a torus. I might be wrong, but I'm going with my instinct here. So all your calculations are actually invalid sorry about pointing that out hahaha but I thought it would just be interesting to note.

tw2000 wrote:There's one major flaw in all of your calculations....
You're all assuming its a sphere
Its not, because if you spin a sphere on the horizontal axis the map would be upside down. Spinning it on the vertical axis would make the thing the right way up. Its why google street view doesn't let you scroll past the bottom (in google street view you are literally inside a sphere of pictures dis. Its something to do with the vertical thing. Thats what makes the ground always on the bottom but never slanted or upside-down.
I think its actually a torus. I might be wrong, but I'm going with my instinct here. So all your calculations are actually invalid sorry about pointing that out hahaha but I thought it would just be interesting to note.

I'm no astronomer but I don't recall planets ever being perfect spheres, so yes, the calculations are a bit flawed. But hey, we are already deep in the territory of the hypothetical. Subterfuge taking place under the thick Europan ice is a start.

mrhax wrote:

tw2000 wrote:There's one major flaw in all of your calculations....
You're all assuming its a sphere
Its not, because if you spin a sphere on the horizontal axis the map would be upside down. Spinning it on the vertical axis would make the thing the right way up. Its why google street view doesn't let you scroll past the bottom (in google street view you are literally inside a sphere of pictures dis. Its something to do with the vertical thing. Thats what makes the ground always on the bottom but never slanted or upside-down.
I think its actually a torus. I might be wrong, but I'm going with my instinct here. So all your calculations are actually invalid sorry about pointing that out hahaha but I thought it would just be interesting to note.

I'm no astronomer but I don't recall planets ever being perfect spheres, so yes, the calculations are a bit flawed. But hey, we are already deep in the territory of the hypothetical. Subterfuge taking place under the thick Europan ice is a start.

I don't think you understand what I mean. The torus is the shape of a donut, except a 'perfect' donut, if you get what I mean. Imagine a soccer ball with the word 'HI!' on it. If you hold it facing away from you, and you turn the ball, depending on which way you turn it, 'HI!' will appear to be upside-down or slanted or the right way up or etc. But if you have a torus this isn't actually possible in the first place because of the 'hole' in the middle, but the 'infinite' map still works. And yes I'm quite sure its a torus now.

tw2000 wrote:I don't think you understand what I mean. The torus is the shape of a donut, except a 'perfect' donut, if you get what I mean. Imagine a soccer ball with the word 'HI!' on it. If you hold it facing away from you, and you turn the ball, depending on which way you turn it, 'HI!' will appear to be upside-down or slanted or the right way up or etc. But if you have a torus this isn't actually possible in the first place because of the 'hole' in the middle, but the 'infinite' map still works. And yes I'm quite sure its a torus now.

Good call!

For those of you still pondering how it works, I'll leave this here:

i like it more. if it pillow shape.

tw2000 wrote:There's one major flaw in all of your calculations....
You're all assuming its a sphere
Its not, because if you spin a sphere on the horizontal axis the map would be upside down. Spinning it on the vertical axis would make the thing the right way up. Its why google street view doesn't let you scroll past the bottom (in google street view you are literally inside a sphere of pictures dis. Its something to do with the vertical thing. Thats what makes the ground always on the bottom but never slanted or upside-down.
I think its actually a torus. I might be wrong, but I'm going with my instinct here. So all your calculations are actually invalid sorry about pointing that out hahaha but I thought it would just be interesting to note.

However the game doesn't offer direction - all of its names and locations are just symbols. We may as well be looking at an upside down outpost but we wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I think you're looking at the map of the sphere from the inside rather than the outside(as per the google example). From the outside it shouldn't look different.
The best example I can think of right now is a ping pong ball or basketball; pretty spherical objects. Mark 3 random points (or use modeling clay and stick it on) on it as symmetrical symbols (circle, star, and plus sign) so that you can see all three without having to turn the ball. Then turn the ball towards yourself (turning along the horizontal). After one full rotation, the three symbols should still be in the same positions as before. Same as rotating the ball to the left or right (along the vertical). After every full rotation, you will always find the points at the same place.

If you rotate the sphere on only one axis at a time things will remain in the same direction, but if you do half a rotation in one direction, and then half a rotation in a direction 90 degrees to the original, you'll return to the original location, but the objects on the sphere will be upside down relative to where they were originally. This can easily be demonstrated with a globe.