v3xt wrote:Do people actually have such a hard time completing the puzzles that they can't play the game?

If you are psyched to play, you read the rules, and watch the tutorial videos, it's not too bad. I probably finished mine in under an hour.

If you don't do those things, it can be a struggle. I read a professional review that said it took him around 3 hours. This is a man who plays video games for a living. My brother, a hardcore gamer, did not finish them over multiple sittings over Thanksgiving break, and we ended up never playing the actual game together.

I totally get the argument that players should have some training before going into a game, more to show that they are invested in the game than to actually give them skill. However, no (fun) game has ever required 45mins-3hours worth of tutorial before you are allowed to play the main game.

I think most importantly, the puzzles are a massive barrier to winning someone over who is at all unsure about the game. Yeah, maybe resigners hurt the experience of the free games, but at least you can see how the game is really played if a fickle noob resigns. Those who quit during puzzles never even get to see the game for what it is.

Think about how long it takes to learn chess......
Sure, maybe 10 minutes?
Then think about how long it takes to be able to play a game without making an illegal move...
My point is that if you can't get through the puzzles, either because you can't be bothered with patience, or you aren't creative (or clever) enough (it took me like 10 minutes to get lvl1), you probably won't really enjoy the game as you'll just end up either autoresigning or losing all your games

tw2000 wrote:yeah the whole point of the puzzles is to try and discourage the players who don't like this long drawn-out game to not play. If they did they would probably lose their first game or just resign and be discouraged as well. You have to make sure you know how to do the basic stuff and watching videos only shows you. You don't necessarily learn.

Agreed. If people drop out in an online game, that game is disbalanced for all other players.
You can't really have a tutorial in the online game, because it's too complex, and not a controlled environment.
I do think the basics need to be explained in a pre-game tutorial, and the devs have chosen the form of puzzles.

If it takes someone an hour to finish the first puzzle, maybe the UI isn't clear?

Maybe its just that the number of puzzles required should be reduced. Maybe something closer to like 5.

I hear you guys on the "proving your patience" thing, I just dont agree. Primarily because the experience of the puzzles is not the experience of the game.

I convince people to give it a shot by telling them about a dynamic game, where you are back-stabbing strangers, destroying people foolish enough to try to back-stab you, making friends, launching global offensives after rallying everyone to your side, making heroic last stands at your final outpost as the world seeks to crush you...

They open the game, and they get... puzzles. Static. One solution. Takes hour(s) to finish.

They gave the game a shot, without ever actually seeing the game.

kevlargolem wrote:Maybe its just that the number of puzzles required should be reduced. Maybe something closer to like 5.

I hear you guys on the "proving your patience" thing, I just dont agree. Primarily because the experience of the puzzles is not the experience of the game.

I convince people to give it a shot by telling them about a dynamic game, where you are back-stabbing strangers, destroying people foolish enough to try to back-stab you, making friends, launching global offensives after rallying everyone to your side, making heroic last stands at your final outpost as the world seeks to crush you...

They open the game, and they get... puzzles. Static. One solution. Takes hour(s) to finish.

They gave the game a shot, without ever actually seeing the game.

Maybe we should get a game for people who are playing their first game organised by the system. So like, every 8 new players there's a new game and the system makes them automatically join, and the game starts after 10 minutes of waiting instead of 8 hours. And while they play their first game against other who play their first game, there could be a pop-up saying how they should go and try the puzzles, and if they don't complete enough puzzles they aren't allowed to play their second game?