thekorfballer wrote:

topkilla wrote:

[*]Thief
Converts 15% of enemy's drillers (rounded up) to your side when attacking an outpost, or in sub to sub combat.
Combat priority: 4

Recommend change:
-Increase the % of enemy drills converted.[/list]

If the % of drillers converted is increased by just 2%, with 3 thiefs on 1 sub the percentage converted will be 51 (3x17%), meaning no drillers are needed on this sub anymore and the sub will win any fight it gets in. I think that's a little OP, so I guess 15% is fine.

actually thieves multiply their % so that would be 0.83^3=0.57, meaning that you will only be able to take 43% of your enemies drillers.
Still, 15% is fine. It's basically the local effect of a king

topkilla wrote:Critical Changes:

• Engineer
  Global: Repairs 25% of the drillers you lose in combat (rounded up) after each combat you win. Local: 25% are repaired after combat taking place where Engineer is present (rounded up).
  
  Recommend change:
  -Remove the ability of the Engineer to repair more drillers than were lost.
  
  
• Tycoon
  Global: Speeds up your driller production rate by 50%. Local: Produces 3 additional drillers with each production cycle while at a factory.
  
  Recommend change:
  -Tycoon's also decrease energy supply.
  And/Or
  -Tycoons production rate is decreased.
  And/Or
  -Tycoon's make factories produce # less drillers per cycle.
  
  
• Admiral
  Global: Increases speed of all your subs that aren't carrying specialists by 50%. Local: Admiral travels 2x faster than ordinary subs.
  
  Recommend change:
  -Remove the ability for Admiral's speed to stack
  Or
  -Decrease the speed boost from 50% to 25%
  
  
• King
  Global: Destroys 1 enemy driller for every 3 of your drillers that remain after specialist phase in every combat you are involved. Reduces max shield charge of all your outposts by 20, except at King's outpost, where it is increased by 20.
  
  Recommend change:
  -King's also decrease electrical supply by 50.

For the tycoon, I've actually been thinking of giving the effects of funding without actually being funded. That would be the equivalent of 33% increase in production speed and 50 extra electricity cap. Let him keep his local effect.

For the admiral, me and JD were talking about a system which went something like
(Number of Admirals: speed factor)
1: 1.50
2: 1.84
3: 2.20
4: 2.49
5: 2.75
6: 3.00
....etc.
note that these are given by the function
f(x) = f(x-1)+(sqrt(f(x-1)/(2(x+1)))
It just might be a little messy to list on the upgrades panel.
And I don't think we should change it from 50 to 25, that's just too drastic. 4 adirals will only give you the ability of a helmsman everywhere.

It seems strange that you've been arguing all this time that this spec is too OP and only giving it a -50 cap.
Someone with 3 kings will only lose 150 drillers. Consider the fact that most people start expanding into others' territory right after their first king. I'd propose something much more drastic such as a -12 or something to all generators.

janitorialduties wrote:

bangerz wrote:location of enemy queens?

That would be an awesome buff, but I'm talking about a use for the intellegence officer if he can't stack. If he can't stack his vision- what does he have left?

maybe only the second Intel off shows queen location

bangerz wrote:TINKERERS:

ONLY ONE TINKERER CAN BE APPLIED PER OUTPOST

Yeah. Looks like the Tinker is the only one I 'forgot'... That limitation gets into the stacking vs no stacking discussion...

I think the Tinker should stack. But needs a very slight reduction.

I'll add it to the list when I get to a computer.

janitorialduties wrote:Again, I don't believe we can remove the stacking from the intellegence officer- he would become a dead hire once the first one is hired.
Maybe a reduction?
I can't think of a logical buff to give him.

Like I mentioned already through pictures, the way he currently is, he doesn't need to stack. And there's no real need to have more than one. Because with 1 Intel Officer, you are able to see 2-3 bases deep all around you.

Personally, I don't think vision and speed should stack. And I think that's the best way to define it. Multiple speed specs won't stack. And anything to increase vision won't stack. But everything else is fair game.

I don't think the dead hire thing is a huge deal. But, you could give him a local effect of 50% vision increase, like the princess, if you wanted I guess.

tw2000 wrote:

thekorfballer wrote:

topkilla wrote:

[*]Thief
Converts 15% of enemy's drillers (rounded up) to your side when attacking an outpost, or in sub to sub combat.
Combat priority: 4

Recommend change:
-Increase the % of enemy drills converted.[/list]

If the % of drillers converted is increased by just 2%, with 3 thiefs on 1 sub the percentage converted will be 51 (3x17%), meaning no drillers are needed on this sub anymore and the sub will win any fight it gets in. I think that's a little OP, so I guess 15% is fine.

actually thieves multiply their % so that would be 0.83^3=0.57, meaning that you will only be able to take 43% of your enemies drillers.
Still, 15% is fine. It's basically the local effect of a king

The Thief, as he is, is useless. He needs some sort of buff.

tw2000 wrote:

topkilla wrote:Critical Changes:

• Engineer
  Global: Repairs 25% of the drillers you lose in combat (rounded up) after each combat you win. Local: 25% are repaired after combat taking place where Engineer is present (rounded up).
  
  Recommend change:
  -Remove the ability of the Engineer to repair more drillers than were lost.
  
  
• Tycoon
  Global: Speeds up your driller production rate by 50%. Local: Produces 3 additional drillers with each production cycle while at a factory.
  
  Recommend change:
  -Tycoon's also decrease energy supply.
  And/Or
  -Tycoons production rate is decreased.
  And/Or
  -Tycoon's make factories produce # less drillers per cycle.
  
  
• Admiral
  Global: Increases speed of all your subs that aren't carrying specialists by 50%. Local: Admiral travels 2x faster than ordinary subs.
  
  Recommend change:
  -Remove the ability for Admiral's speed to stack
  Or
  -Decrease the speed boost from 50% to 25%
  
  
• King
  Global: Destroys 1 enemy driller for every 3 of your drillers that remain after specialist phase in every combat you are involved. Reduces max shield charge of all your outposts by 20, except at King's outpost, where it is increased by 20.
  
  Recommend change:
  -King's also decrease electrical supply by 50.

For the tycoon, I've actually been thinking of giving the effects of funding without actually being funded. That would be the equivalent of 33% increase in production speed and 50 extra electricity cap. Let him keep his local effect.

For the admiral, me and JD were talking about a system which went something like
(Number of Admirals: speed factor)
1: 1.50
2: 1.84
3: 2.20
4: 2.49
5: 2.75
6: 3.00
....etc.
note that these are given by the function
f(x) = f(x-1)+(sqrt(f(x-1)/(2(x+1)))
It just might be a little messy to list on the upgrades panel.
And I don't think we should change it from 50 to 25, that's just too drastic. 4 adirals will only give you the ability of a helmsman everywhere.

It seems strange that you've been arguing all this time that this spec is too OP and only giving it a -50 cap.
Someone with 3 kings will only lose 150 drillers. Consider the fact that most people start expanding into others' territory right after their first king. I'd propose something much more drastic such as a -12 or something to all generators.

You want the tycoon to give electrical supply? Just no. The problem is he gives too much production. Giving him electrical supply does nothing to counter that.


Your 'function' is way to complicated. And doesn't do much to counter the issue at hand. Like I mentioned, I'd prefer it to just not stack. But if they are going to stack, I think a 25% increase is the way to go.

1 A = 1.25x speed
2 A = 1.5x Speed
3 A = 1.75x Speed
4 A = 2x speed
8 A = 3x speed



It's about balance. The King should be strong. Yes. But he needs some sort of countering negative effect to balance him out.

-50 Supply per king should do that. That roughly decreases his army supply by 67 units/King. And massively Decreases the maximum amount of units in a death subs.

Seeing as no new ideas or opinions have been put forward, I will email the Devs of Topkilla's recent post. Are there any last words or statements anybody would like to make?

Topkilla's post is mostly fine, except it doesn't hurt kings at all really. 50 electrical output is no harsh enough and they won't be balanced with it. If anything the hit to electrical output should be something that scales.
Better yet king effects should be local (no shield or electrical hits).
Best would be only one king just like there is only one queen, and everything else stays the same.

gardengnome wrote:Topkilla's post is mostly fine, except it doesn't hurt kings at all really. 50 electrical output is no harsh enough and they won't be balanced with it. If anything the hit to electrical output should be something that scales.
Better yet king effects should be local (no shield or electrical hits).
Best would be only one king just like there is only one queen, and everything else stays the same.

Hey friend,

The idea isn't to make the Kings useless. But to bring them more inline with everything else. The -50 Supply Cap means that for every King someone makes, they lose the equivalent of a generator.

It may not seem like much, but it is. Because not only does the player lose those 50 Drillers/King. They also lose an additional 16-17 drillers from the kings ability. Plus, that also helps keep a check on the players ability stockpile an astronomical amount of troops for King-style death subs.

Now, the King will still be a killer specialist. But in theory, he shouldn't be anywhere near as powerful in the early to mid game.