Regarding the outpost names - remember that it's a monetization strategy. So if someone wants to pay a buck to name his outpost IHateStefan, then I'll chuckle at the fact that the devs get money from it, and I'll try even harder to conquer that outpost.

(Also if it's an IAP per outpost rename, I wouldn't be that interested in it, if it's a one time IAP I'd probably get it just to support the devs. I've seen better ideas.)

(*jukes topkilla's troll post)

Another great idea I saw during the AMA was for a "puzzle maker" mode. The way I understood, it was basically Mario Maker (on WiiU), but for Subterfuge puzzles.

For those unfamiliar with Mario Maker, you make a level (in this case a puzzle), and so long as you can beat it, you can have it submitted to a server full of player-made puzzles for others to try and beat or you can invite friends directly to your puzzle.

madiranofo wrote:Repeating my earlier point about a sandbox mode, this would also have the added benefits of:

* allowing players to test stuff out in a safe environment. Hell, I'd use it all the time as specialist combos can yield unexpected results.

* being great to create tutorial videos with- you can demonstrate attacks or defence, what specialists do, what combos can do, etc etc. I'd personally have a go at this as I have a YT channel where I've done some Absolute Beginners guides to some games.

I'm not sure how easily developable a sandbox mode would be. It's certainly a great idea for feature, but I'm sure how it would help make Subterfuge money. I'll add it to list a new list of other requested features.

Well this got a lot longer since I was last here. I'll just state some general opinions.

Colour Packs/Texture Packs:
I don't personally think you should be able to select or change your colour, but I feel that it would be nice if you could purchase different symbols for your outposts and subs. I don't think it would be too hard to design 2 or 3 different packs as you only need to make 4 things, and the current theme isn't . (Mine, Generator, Factory, Subs) I'd probably throw out a buck or 2 to get a steampunk themed pack.

Noob Games:
This sounds hard to make effective. Sure you could have new player's first game be titled NOOB GAME and have people paired up in a different way than normal, but how do you screen the experienced players to make sure they'll actually be helpful? What if they get stuck with some jerk and it ruins the game for them? For now, I suggest that if you see a new player you just make an effort to give them an enjoyable game.

Puzzle Maker Mode:
This would be super cool as an idea, but I feel it might be rather difficult to implement and I don't see it making that much money for them. If someone isn't going to pay for L2 because they don't like the game that much, I doubt that the ability to make puzzles would change that. Even if it's a separate purchase from L2, I feel that only L2's would end up buying it, and only a portion of them. So now you're selling something to a target audience that's even smaller than the original audience was. It just wouldn't make enough money relative to how much time was invested.

Rapid Games:
I disagree with this for so many reasons. To start with, a major portion of Subterfuge is based on diplomacy. If your rapid game took 1 hour, that would mean that every minute would equal 4 hours! You'd hire a specialist every 4 and a half minutes, and orders would be happening too fast for you to deal with. All of the precision involved with perfectly timed orders would fall apart, because by the time you finished planning something, it already would have happened. Communication would be likely be non-existent, because in the few minutes you take to explain something, the situation would have already changed. For it to work enjoyably it would require a bunch of modifications and it wouldn't even be Subterfuge any more. It might still be fun, but it may as well be a separate app. If you want something with somewhat similar mechanics, go check out Solarmax 2. It's not the same obviously, but I always think of it when people suggest a rapid mode.

Outpost Naming:
Not that big a deal. I can't see it making that much money honestly, but I don't think it would be a huge problem. I don't think it's necessary, but if it was implemented I can see myself naming all my outposts to something like "V3xtland" and "V3xtopia".

So yeah. Basic opinion is still that the best way to make more money is just to have more people play it. Maybe advertise it or get it featured somewhere?

topkilla wrote:Art is hard yo. And the Devs are programmers. Not Designers.

Lets get back to brainstorming more Monetization Ideas.

That's all true, but if we give them the colors we'd like to see, all they have to do is choose their favorites and... yeah, program it. I think they're qualified for that.

This thread has some positive points:

* how passionate are some of us about this game!?
* this community is trying to help the developers. That's rare.

Firstly, topkilla, its nothing personal, but I just wanted to point out that you always seem to be that person who disagrees with me anyway, now for some debating....

I don't what to say to this. It sounds like you want them to make Subterfuge into a completely different game... But for what its meant to be, the game is perfect. The length isn't a downside, it's a feature.

I didn't say change the time scale, I said add more timescales. And the length may not be a downside to you, but it certainly is for me (and many of my friends who I've introduced this to). Also, the lack of something can't be a feature. So here, sure, the slow games are a feature, but the lack of fast games is not. Therefore saying that the length of the game is a feature while not considering the lack of fast games as 'not yet a feature' would be inaccurate. Also, just because I'm adding shorter timescales does not mean I'm compromising the atmosphere of the game. You can still (hopefully) play 1 fast game and 1 standard game at a time. This means that people will still play standard games, and because the variety (mentioned below) is greater, more people will be playing it, so that even if a lower percentage of people play standard games, there will still be a greater absolute number of players playing it.

The problem with the game is it's niche. And the bigger problem is that its an mobile game. You either make it big or you are lost in a sea of endless apps. For example, the only reason I have this game is because I randomly visited Touch Arcade one day. If i would have been busy that day, I would have never even heard of Subterfuge.

To make it big you need more variety. Just compare temple run 1 to temple run 2 and you'll see what I mean. People these days are striving for variation, and an extremely good example right now are the experimental games happening in the forums right now. So, I suggest timescale as a suitable aspect that could do with variation.

I also think your expectations of how popular 'quick' games will be is widely inaccurate. I believe the feature is most likely intended to be used for friends all in the same physical location. As if it was a Digital Board-game. Like a modern version of Risk. If my experience with 'live' versions of asynchronous games is any indication of how popular a 'quick' game will be, I highly doubt there will ever be a fully completed 'quick' game where the players are not all in the same room.

I have no idea, but have you every played online chess, or even better, LOL? Chess has a wide range of timescales from about 30 seconds per game to 4 hours per game even online. In real life its about 5 minutes to 6 hours. Although I don't play LOL, I know a lot about it because of my friends. In LOL there can be up to 10 players split into 2 teams. The game is then played out like an 'extremely complex board game consisting of simultaneous movements by all players'. Each game takes about 40 minutes, and inmost cases people play with strangers they've never met before. As for the popularity of 'quick games', I am fairly certain that I am accurate enough. Compare the number of people playing 'bullet' chess as opposed to 'standard chess' online. With bullet games you can fit many more games in and the action combined into the thinking can actually give quite a lot of adrenaline, which many young people (myself included) are looking for.

P.S. I would expect x100 Speed to be goldilocks of 'quick' game speed. Slow, but also not too fast. @x100 speed, a sub can reach an outpost in 6 minutes that would normally take 10 hours. @400x speed, that sub would take 1.5 minutes to arrive.

I really cannot imagine playing a game of Subterfuge that literally takes up your entire afternoon. (a typical 12-day game would last almost 3 hours). Instead making the 1.5 minute interval between 10 hour outposts is much better, I can imagine the time used in waiting for the 1.5 minutes to finish being used for diplomacy (especially with a desktop version of Subterfuge). Also, most sub trips are about 15-20 hours long, which would be closer to 2-3 minutes. A game would last 40 minutes at this rate, that is still rather long for a 'quick' game of subterfuge, but with its diplomacy you can't really do much about it, so, 40 minutes seems suitable.

madiranofo wrote:Repeating my earlier point about a sandbox mode, this would also have the added benefits of:

* allowing players to test stuff out in a safe environment. Hell, I'd use it all the time as specialist combos can yield unexpected results.

* being great to create tutorial videos with- you can demonstrate attacks or defence, what specialists do, what combos can do, etc etc. I'd personally have a go at this as I have a YT channel where I've done some Absolute Beginners guides to some games.

Also, user created tactics/puzzles

topkilla wrote:

kevlargolem wrote:*Sigh. Clearly you have some kind of vendetta against me, because I can't so much as write a post in this forum without you coming after me. So lets get to it I guess.
____
So there shouldn't even be a rule against verbal abuse in this game, right? Cause anyone who can't take it is just a cry baby, and shouldnt be allowed to play online games.

Similar names might have a minor effect on allies, but firstly there isnt as often an urgent need to refer to an ally base. Usually just "send the gift to the closest one" will do. And as the person in control of the names, you can make your ally border easy names, enemy borders hard. Secondly, there is also the scenarios where someone is just getting ganked by everyone and has not allies to worry about confusing.

As for your arguements against a color pack, theyre just not valid.
1) All players dont need to have the same pack. The pack is to be able to choose the color for yourself. People who havnt bought it can still see it and refer to you as that color.
2) A color pallet is a hell of a lot simpler than C++. I have faith in them.
3) You do not have to come up with 10 colors. I dont even see why you would think this.

I don't have a vandetta against you. You just keep posting bad ideas I disagree with. And so far you've been unwilling to even attempt to try and look at the situation with a different perceptive. Even when I've clearly laid it out for you.


Your argument against it is that someone might be offended by a base name and that another small percent will use the names to confuse their enemies. Meanwhile, everyone else enjoys the new feature and the Devs make some more money.

It just so happens that it's an online game. Trash talking happens. And it's fun. Seriously. If you have no interest in it, it's not hard to avoid by not replying to whoever is trash talking you. And in the future, you will probably be able to mute that player. But the fact remains that Trash Talking =/= Verbal Abuse. And if trash talking affects you in such a negative way, you really shouldn't be playing online games.


Lastly, I lack the willpower to explain point by point why my arguments are valid and why the things you have mentioned are incorrect.

To be honest, I think the idea is good, but the implementation is bad. Instead, the Devs could just have a one-off IAP where a player gets to rename the outpost that their queen starts on, or maybe just have the outpost name at any random outpost in the game. This would be done before all games, and games being played out while a player uses this feature would not affect the game, only games created in the future. In this case, the Devs could actually go through and verify all the names themselves. If each name takes 3 seconds (and it will probably take more like 2 or 1), then 1000 names can be verified in less than 30 minutes (for 2 Devs).

If you think that making it a one-off would be a bad idea, then perhaps there could be an option to change it if you pay for a rename again (or maybe the 'again' renames wouldn't cost as much as the first? Or wouldn't cost as much for L2 players?)

If you think its gonna be annoying for the Devs, the Devs will probably just think 'everytime I accept an outpost name I earn $1' or whatever.....I would definitely spend 3 seconds of my time earning $1 (or even 50c for that matter)

topkilla wrote:

madiranofo wrote:Repeating my earlier point about a sandbox mode, this would also have the added benefits of:

* allowing players to test stuff out in a safe environment. Hell, I'd use it all the time as specialist combos can yield unexpected results.

* being great to create tutorial videos with- you can demonstrate attacks or defence, what specialists do, what combos can do, etc etc. I'd personally have a go at this as I have a YT channel where I've done some Absolute Beginners guides to some games.

I'm not sure how easily developable a sandbox mode would be. It's certainly a great idea for feature, but I'm sure how it would help make Subterfuge money. I'll add it to list a new list of other requested features.

It would help make Subterfuge money by directly encouraging new players to stay. How do I know how a specialist works other than in a game, when I may not even get it, and if I do, it may not be usable. Games are so long, and a mistake can take days to iron itself out, we desperately need some quick testing environment. Otherwise, frustration abounds, and people quit- ESPECIALLY if they're just level 1 and haven't shelled out any cash.

While we're on ideas- can we introduce a tournaments subforum, so this main board isn't cluttered up with so many tournie threads? Again, not directly moneymaking, but the more welcoming and clear a forum feels, the better.