tw2000 wrote:I don't what to say to this. It sounds like you want them to make Subterfuge into a completely different game... But for what its meant to be, the game is perfect. The length isn't a downside, it's a feature.
I didn't say change the time scale, I said add more timescales. And the length may not be a downside to you, but it certainly is for me (and many of my friends who I've introduced this to). Also, the lack of something can't be a
feature. So here, sure, the slow games are a feature, but the lack of fast games is not. Therefore saying that the length of the game is a feature while not considering the lack of fast games as 'not yet a feature' would be inaccurate. Also, just because I'm adding shorter timescales does not mean I'm compromising the atmosphere of the game. You can still (hopefully) play 1 fast game and 1 standard game at a time. This means that people will still play standard games, and because the variety (mentioned below) is greater, more people will be playing it, so that even if a lower percentage of people play standard games, there will still be a greater absolute number of players playing it.
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tw2000 wrote:The problem with the game is it's niche. And the bigger problem is that its an mobile game. You either make it big or you are lost in a sea of endless apps. For example, the only reason I have this game is because I randomly visited Touch Arcade one day. If i would have been busy that day, I would have never even heard of Subterfuge.
To make it big you need more variety. Just compare temple run 1 to temple run 2 and you'll see what I mean. People these days are striving for variation, and an extremely good example right now are the experimental games happening in the forums right now. So, I suggest timescale as a suitable aspect that could do with variation.
This game will never make it big because it's niche. Its a strategy game<It's a War Strategy game<It's a diplomatic War Strategy game<It's a Real Time Diplomatic War Strategy game<It's a Real Time Diplomatic War Strategy game on mobile devices.
^That's a very tiny group of people. And the fact that it's a mobile game means it won't easily be found.
There's a number of things you are not considering with all of the variations you would like to see. But the quick list is; Game Design, Player Base fragmentation, Development Time/Cost, and Demand.
tw2000 wrote:P.S. I would expect x100 Speed to be goldilocks of 'quick' game speed. Slow, but also not too fast. @x100 speed, a sub can reach an outpost in 6 minutes that would normally take 10 hours. @400x speed, that sub would take 1.5 minutes to arrive.
I really cannot imagine playing a game of Subterfuge that literally takes up your entire afternoon. (a typical 12-day game would last almost 3 hours). Instead making the 1.5 minute interval between 10 hour outposts is much better, I can imagine the time used in waiting for the 1.5 minutes to finish being used for diplomacy (especially with a desktop version of Subterfuge). Also, most sub trips are about 15-20 hours long, which would be closer to 2-3 minutes. A game would last 40 minutes at this rate, that is still rather long for a 'quick' game of subterfuge, but with its diplomacy you can't really do much about it, so, 40 minutes seems suitable.
People who play board games are totally willing to spend 2.88 Hours (Converted from game time to 100x speed and calculated with 12 days as the average game length) playing one game.
However, if you were to consider the new dynamic of a 100x game, I would expect the average game to take make 1.75 hours. Especially if all the players where in the same room. Everyone will be fully engaged in the game. Meaning diplomatic deals would take place much sooner and there would be much less idle time.
But diplomacy and planning takes time. And thats why a sub that takes 1.5 minute sub (in relation to the standard 10 hours) is completely unreasonable compared to the 6 minute sub. You simply have slightly more time to respond. Maybe a minute or two. Compared to the 10ish seconds you would @400x.
tw2000 wrote:I also think your expectations of how popular 'quick' games will be is widely inaccurate. I believe the feature is most likely intended to be used for friends all in the same physical location. As if it was a Digital Board-game. Like a modern version of Risk. If my experience with 'live' versions of asynchronous games is any indication of how popular a 'quick' game will be, I highly doubt there will ever be a fully completed 'quick' game where the players are not all in the same room.
I have no idea, but have you every played online chess, or even better, LOL? Chess has a wide range of timescales from about 30 seconds per game to 4 hours per game even online. In real life its about 5 minutes to 6 hours. Although I don't play LOL, I know a lot about it because of my friends. In LOL there can be up to 10 players split into 2 teams. The game is then played out like an 'extremely complex board game consisting of simultaneous movements by all players'. Each game takes about 40 minutes, and inmost cases people play with strangers they've never met before. As for the popularity of 'quick games', I am fairly certain that I am accurate enough. Compare the number of people playing 'bullet' chess as opposed to 'standard chess' online. With bullet games you can fit many more games in and the action combined into the thinking can actually give quite a lot of adrenaline, which many young people (myself included) are looking for.
Chess is a board game and has hundred of thousands, if not millions of players world wide. LOL is a hugely popular computer game with hundreds of thousands of players, and came from DOTA which has been around for at least 10 years.
Subterfuge has been around for less than four months. Subterfuge had 7000 players yesterday. And 6900 players today. You simply can't make comparisons between these games. Especially since the method of consumption of the games is entirely different.
A proper comparison would be to any mobile game that is asynchronous and includes a "live" game mode. And for all of the live game modes I've tried, I've never had a good experience with it.
