Turtle power ruins games

Strategy, feedback, or anything SUBTERFUGE-related
Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:24 pm

  • paradox486 wrote:
    kevlargolem wrote:
    paradox486 wrote:1 guy sitting in an un killable base is ridiculous. Any PVP game that has something un stoppable is broken and should be re balanced.


    He's not unstoppable. He's hanging by a thread.

    Don't believe me? Look at the leaderboard. This is not an elimination game. The winners are determined by points, not in the level of satisfaction you get from seeing the word "eliminated" next to someone's name.


    I've explained it's not about eliminating a player if he wants to take his pile of turtle half way across the map and be someone else's headache I couldn't be happier its about eliminating a threat.


    If hes turtling then hes probably not much of a threat, if hes turtling to the extreme then hes certainly not much of a threat, unless your grand plan boils down to bashing your head against his shields. Make peace with him and keep communication. Anything to the extreme is going to be extreamly annnyoing. Ever play against a sub with double engineers and a thief? They actually gain drillers when they win.
    zerashi
     
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Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:37 pm

  • Try to start a discussion about balance and you just get trolled and called a rager, yay internet!
    paradox486
     
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Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:48 pm

  • One has to wonder why you are having trouble playing diplomacy with the turtle...

    But seriously paradox you are kinda raging. Turtles are annoying especially when they snap (especially when they snap at the eleventh hour when you had never even taken so much as a doomed outpost from them- but that's an aside). However an annoyance does not a ruined game make. This isn't an arm wrestling match and this isn't risk- you don't win by being bigger or eliminating the other player. I for one have felt a turtle ruined my day but I've never felt any have ruined the game.
    pgroot
     
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Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:22 pm

  • I'm currently in a game, and I'm turtling. It's kinda fun, but I can't really do anything. What I decided to do is just send pretty much everything at another base, and take it. That way, I'm not completely turtling, but I really can't do much with my drillers and specialists.
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    mathwhiz9
     
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Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:45 pm

  • paradox486 wrote:Try to start a discussion about balance and you just get trolled and called a rager, yay internet!


    Order of events leading to this thread:

    (1) You said this game is about strategy.
    (2) You make the worst strategic move possible.
    (3) You complain about it.
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    topkilla
     
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Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:28 pm

  • paradox486 wrote:Try to start a discussion about balance and you just get trolled and called a rager, yay internet!

    But what I'm trying to say is that it is not about balance at all. Unless you agree that turtling is an overpowered way to win?

    Yes, it's very annoying. But balance has nothing to do with annoyance.
    Champinoman
     
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Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:41 pm

  • paradox486 wrote:
    tw2000 wrote:
    paradox486 wrote:So I want to make sure I got this straight.

    Player 1:
    +200 drillers a day
    550 of 700 driller cap

    Player 2:
    +36 drillers a day
    80 of 150 driller cap

    Player 1 can't finish off Player 2

    No one has a problem with that?

    I don't have a degree in mathematics but I'm having trouble seeing how anyone can argue that this makes sense.

    Yeah actually I have a problem with that :D

    Firstly, He probably has like 10 specialists there. Typically they go something along the lines of: queen, pirate, minister of energy, security chief, king, princess, sentry, foreman, saboteurs.
    So adding everything in we get about 80 shield + 600 electricity output + 44 drillers a day + princess and sentry combo + saboteurs. Note that I am taking the effect of the king into account here. e.g. It would be 450 driller cap, but the king effectively makes that equivalent to 600.

    So yeah thats my problem :P


    The attacking player would also have just as many specialists, with the advantage of multiple times the production.

    With turtling, the greatest advantage is having a huge specilaist:outpost ratio. What you're saying is that the bigger player would have to have all his speciliasts at one outpost as well... But wait, that doesn't work, because the turtle can just attack another of your outposts. See what I mean? There's a saying which goes "Sometimes the most powerful thing is to have nothing left to lose" which is kinda true, except you can't lose your queen in this game. The more you have left to lose, the more vulnerable you are.

    Another factor that goes against you is that his outpost will have about 80 or so shield, and since your attaking him you'll have to deal with that shield.
    Kings aren't OP

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    tw2000
     
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Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:24 am

  • topkilla wrote:
    paradox486 wrote:Try to start a discussion about balance and you just get trolled and called a rager, yay internet!


    Order of events leading to this thread:

    (1) You said this game is about strategy.
    (2) You make the worst strategic move possible.
    (3) You complain about it.


    god you are a stupid troll, I'm talking about turtling in all non mine games not just because I made 1 wrong move.
    paradox486
     
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Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:28 am

  • Champinoman wrote:
    paradox486 wrote:Try to start a discussion about balance and you just get trolled and called a rager, yay internet!

    But what I'm trying to say is that it is not about balance at all. Unless you agree that turtling is an overpowered way to win?

    Yes, it's very annoying. But balance has nothing to do with annoyance.


    overpowered = to powerful to overcome, being able to hold back a player who just captured all of your bases because you have been forced into a corner doesn't make any strategic sense from a combat standpoint. When the dev's built this game I doubt they were like, and then when you lose all of your bases except for 1 it just becomes unkillable.
    paradox486
     
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Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:42 am

  • tw2000 wrote:
    With turtling, the greatest advantage is having a huge specilaist:outpost ratio. What you're saying is that the bigger player would have to have all his speciliasts at one outpost as well... But wait, that doesn't work, because the turtle can just attack another of your outposts. See what I mean? There's a saying which goes "Sometimes the most powerful thing is to have nothing left to lose" which is kinda true, except you can't lose your queen in this game. The more you have left to lose, the more vulnerable you are.

    Another factor that goes against you is that his outpost will have about 80 or so shield, and since your attaking him you'll have to deal with that shield.



    This is why I suggested turtling's strength be brought down by limit the number of "active" specialists at a base. A player who's been pushed down to 1 base shouldn't be as exponentially difficult to take over as they are.

    Or if the maximum number of specials allowed to be "active" at once base were driller cap/30 then a player sitting on 1 factory would still have 5 specials they can use which would give them a decided advantage over someone attacking since only 3 specials can be sent on 1 sub. Plus inactive specials global abilities still affect the base as if they weren't there.
    paradox486
     
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