stefan wrote:

blanc wrote:I feel as though I've been misunderstood.
When I mentioned the mini purchase idea, I didn't say that it should replace the L2 payment.

I understood you correctly maybe wasn't very complete in my post on this page. Smaller individual purchases (ideally $11-12 combined) or the one current L2 pass ($10).

Yeah Stefan, you understood me very clearly and I'm pretty sure you and I are on the same page.

Just checked the appstore to pull some quotes regarding L2 (read 50 reviews)

Positive (7): "I had my $10 worth of fun", "the only IAP is how IAPs should be; a worthwhile purchase", "I gladly paid the $10 one time cost...Happy to do it for games of this level of quality", "I would definitely pay for the extra feature because in my opinion it is well worth it", "l2 for ten bucks? Easily the best ten dollars I've ever spent on anything gaming related", "There is a $10 premium account (for l2) but it is absolutely worth it", "People complain about the L2 price but I think it's totally worth the money"

Neutral (2): "10 dollar fee to unlock (l2) didn't bother me", "You can play for free, but I suggest you (buy L2) and jump in to (help the devs)"

Negative (8): "$9.99 is a pretty steep price", "there is one problem. The paywall of TEN DOLLARS prevents you from playing ranked games (etc)", "The fact that you have to spend 9.99 on the game to get (unl sched orders) is difficult to swallow...I just feel that the 9.99 could be 4.99 and be a better pill to swallow", "$9.99 is just toooo much for a game like this. THe game is simply too small to be worth $9.99", "(l2 is way too much for $10), and I wouldn't pay more than $2.99 for (l2)", "It's too expensive if I had to choose a pricing then it'll be $5 at highest...but $10 is just a rip off", "I would love to (support the devs) but $10 is way too much", "the $10 price seems somewhat high for an app like this"

So it appears that the average reviewer does not comment about price (33 of 50), but for those who do, the general opinion is slightly negative regarding the cost of L2 (8 neg vs 7 pos vs 2 neut)

If $10 is too expensive for you, maybe you need a hobby other than gaming. After playing one game of Subterfuge on the free version of the app, I felt I had gotten enough entertainment already to justify paying $10 to support the makers.

And no, you can't buy Call of Duty for $10, unless you want to buy MW1/2 which are 9 and 6 years old.

It's an interesting topic that I think warrants discussion. Most people simply are not accustomed to paying that much for a mobile game, regardless of the fact that it is cheaper than a traditional console game.

My friend and I like to consider this metric: can you get an hour of entertainment per dollar? So in this case, 10 hours? For me, I've easily surpassed that point.

But an interesting thing about this game is you can play the complete game for free. The paywall blocks out superfluous features, so you aren't really missing anything by not paying. The exception for me was the creation of private games. When I convinced some friends to get the game, I immediately paid $10 so I could host a private game for us.

To the game's credit, I managed to get 3 friends to also pay the $10. I've never been able to get my friends to pay as little as $3 on other games (like Threes) in the past.

elijahayes wrote:...because I love the game and would like to try the L2, but did not want to spend $10 for something like that...

I'm honestly curious why you wouldn't spend $10 on something you readily admit you "love." ?

furiosa wrote:

elijahayes wrote:...because I love the game and would like to try the L2, but did not want to spend $10 for something like that...

I'm honestly curious why you wouldn't spend $10 on something you readily admit you "love." ?

Furiosa! On an unrelated note, love your YouTube videos and it's cool that you make them.

Anyway back on track, I was actually considering buying a few gift cards so L1's could buy L2.
Then it hit me, all of the people, myself included, that said they would happily pay more for this game could...We could have a L2 drive of sorts and basically give out L2 to people...for free.

It's probably a stupid idea but it would greatly support the devs and generally make the community happier and even more active.

First: I have paid my $10, love the game, and support the devs in their mission to make this game the best they can be!

With that said, I think the mentality of why people should pay needs to change.

People, as consumers, are only interested in themselves (for the most part). They only care about the best deals they can get themselves, and how products benefits them personally.

BMW (replace any car company you want) does not tell their clients "buy this car so we can continue to make our cars better". Call of Duty does not tell their players "buy this game to support our development of future games".

Instead they focus on how purchasing their products benefits you personally. BMW says "buy our car and YOU will stand out from the crowd". Call of Duty says "buy our game and YOU can rule the battle field".

Personally, I am all for supporting the devs. However, that does not translate to many people who may never think twice about the devs.

I agree with what topkilla mentioned in an earlier post for payment system. The system would be...

All are one time purchases
L2 - $10
L1 (no ads) - $2.99
L1 (unlimited moves) - $2.99
L1 (player notes) - $2.99
L1 (rated/ranked games) - $2.99

Then you advertise it as...
L2 - YOU save money, and YOU have free reign
L1 (no ads) - YOU don't get annoyed by all those ads
L1 (unlimited moves) - YOU have the freedom to see into the future
L1 (player notes) - YOU can keep track of your enemies
L1 (rated/ranked games) - You can play with the big boys/girls

By breaking up the prices, people may feel more comfortable paying money. By telling people what they will get out of the deal, they may feel like they are getting a deal based on what they want. The devs are being supported by people buying what the people want, rather than paying money to support someone they don't know.

I hope that all makes sense, and apologize for the long explaination. I love this game and I hope to see it continue for a long time!!

generalchewy wrote:BMW (replace any car company you want) does not tell their clients "buy this car so we can continue to make our cars better". Call of Duty does not tell their players "buy this game to support our development of future games".

Instead they focus on how purchasing their products benefits you personally. BMW says "buy our car and YOU will stand out from the crowd". Call of Duty says "buy our game and YOU can rule the battle field".

How about, "buy this game, or else it will go out of business and you won't be able to play it at all"?

For me, the money I spent on this game was absolutely worth it. I've probably played it everyday for the last 2 and a half months. I don't think I've ever played any other game, regardless of the price, so rigorously.

furiosa wrote:My friend and I like to consider this metric: can you get an hour of entertainment per dollar? So in this case, 10 hours? For me, I've easily surpassed that point.

This is also how I like to look at games. You can't "beat" Subterfuge, so as long as you enjoy the game, you can play it forever. It's not like many other apps you can buy, where once you beat all the levels or finish the story it turns into replaying things you've already done. Even most console games are like this.

If you're one of the people that thinks this game is too expensive because you either can't afford it, or your parent's don't let you buy games, then unless it's free, it'll still be too expensive for you. Free games don't make money unless millions of people are seeing advertisement in them, and that isn't going to happen.

If you think Subterfuge just isn't worth 10 dollars, well why not? Two people spent 3 years together working on this game. That's 6 years total, and they haven't made any money for that work. It just seems wrong to ask them to sell it for even less money in my mind.

This is why I recommended a limited time sale.

All this talk about whether the game is or is not worth 10$ is pretty irrelevant. Obviously to people who love the game so much that they would come to the forum to be part of the community, they are going to overwhelmingly think it is easily worth 10$.

The fact is, not everyone who plays the game thinks its worth paying 10$, otherwise there would be no free players and everyone would gladly put up the money.

If the game goes on sale for a limited time (maybe 8$ now, then future sales for progressively less as the game gets older), some people who otherwise might never spend money on the game, will be convinced to spend that money. Not only is that money in the pocket of the devs that they otherwise never would have had, now that the person has L2, maybe they spend money on future content, or if not at least the active ranked community has grown larger.

Sales are a time tested business move, and downloadable software (like videogames) are by far the best market for sales, because there is zero cost per unit. Steam has capitalized on this, why not Subterfuge?

If I know a game has been on sale once, I'm very unlikely to get it for the regular price after the sale is over. I'll put it on my watchlist until the next sale, which might or might not happen.

Of course this doesn't counter an argument about a "time tested business move" as you call it. Just saying that once you play the sale card for the first time, you're decreasing the value of the game even after the sale is over. Hopefully the sales during such a discount will make up for that.