Part of making a sale effective is to also make seem like it's a limited one time only event.

...Even though by this point we know that that mattress store is never really going out of business. (however, Subterfuge literally might be)

Also, a reduction of the price can make people that paid the full price feel taken advantage of.

v3xt wrote:Also, a reduction of the price can make people that paid the full price feel taken advantage of.

This is important.
Lowering the price would cause huge uproar
That's why I still believe just creating lower priced options for players would be better, we should leave the L2 pass as is.

Taken advantage of because you could have saved $2 if you had only waited 3 months?

v3xt wrote:

generalchewy wrote:BMW (replace any car company you want) does not tell their clients "buy this car so we can continue to make our cars better". Call of Duty does not tell their players "buy this game to support our development of future games".

Instead they focus on how purchasing their products benefits you personally. BMW says "buy our car and YOU will stand out from the crowd". Call of Duty says "buy our game and YOU can rule the battle field".

How about, "buy this game, or else it will go out of business and you won't be able to play it at all"?

I see what you are saying, and I agree with you. However I don't think new players will see it that way.

This goes along with my point. If people don't think they are getting anything out of the price of the game, then they won't care if the game goes out of business.

The hardcore fans are going to see the value in supporting the game and supporting the devs. I am one of those fans who have been around since the beta testing.

But I think new players are going to have to feel they are getting something for their money. Something more tangible than hours of fun. They can have fun for free, which is why you need to sell them on the features they don't have.

By selling them what they don't have, the people feel they are buying something tangible, and they ultimately support the devs and the life of the game.

A couple days ago I was invited to my first game, I quickly hit the order limit and was given the option for L2. I did a little research, found these forums and other good info, and then purchased L2 after maybe 10 minutes of game play. Do you know why? This game is a GD unicorn and I wanted to throw money at it. $10 is a fantastic deal, I think pricing on the app store for board games is totally screwed up and generally leads to very few games being released and/or low quality titles, because the business terms are hard to make work.

I wont rant all day, but I do want to address a few fallacies I have seen thrown around on here. For context, I have been in the f2p game industry for years and have data from our games and from some of our partners, but no insight into this particular game.

elijahayes wrote:I'll still play your game because it is amazing, but I am sure that lowering the cost of L2 would be a good idea for both the gamers and the developers. Think about it - You lower the cost for the L2 to maybe half, and you make double the sales that you did when you had it at a higher cost, and you are still making the same amount. I'm sure that you would reach double sales or maybe even exceed. I know I would happily purchase if it was half price.

This is a common misconception, but never turns out to be true. I would put the average bump in conversion (increase in paying players) somewhere around 20% when you cut prices in half. Conversely, if the Devs were to double their pricing (which would be hard to pull off now), they would probably only see a roughly 20% drop in conversion rate, which would more than make up for the price increase. While there is a limit to the price they could set, generally speaking, the higher price the Devs set the more money they would likely make.

stefan wrote:If I know a game has been on sale once, I'm very unlikely to get it for the regular price after the sale is over. I'll put it on my watchlist until the next sale, which might or might not happen.

Of course this doesn't counter an argument about a "time tested business move" as you call it. Just saying that once you play the sale card for the first time, you're decreasing the value of the game even after the sale is over. Hopefully the sales during such a discount will make up for that.

In my experience, this is also generally not the case. Sure, some people will wait for a sale no matter what, but that is likely a very small fraction of people. Though this game is likely a bit of an exception, the vast majority of players never visit a forum or do any research into sale history, so they would have no idea if the price had ever been lower.

v3xt wrote:Also, a reduction of the price can make people that paid the full price feel taken advantage of.

Possibly, but as I eluded to before, the people that would even be aware of the price drop would likely be very, very small. If communication is handled well by the Devs, they could probably put out most of the fires in the community before they even started.

topkilla wrote:Choosing not to support the game is 100% fine. As it's you're right to do so. No one can fault you for it. But it's important for you to understand that games like subterfuge are a rarity. And the reason there are so very few games like Subterfuge on the app store is because there's a small player base for them. And most have been huge financial disasters. (Look at Outwitters)

So if you like the game, and you would love to see updates to it, as well as similar games from other Devs in the future, you should support it. Because for each time a game like Subterfuge tanks financially, there's a smaller chance of a similar type game coming out in the future.

So unless you want to play games like farmville and Clash of Clans, I'd highly suggest you go work for 30 minutes and then walk to the store to buy an iTunes Gift Card.

This. So very this.

@felendis, really appreciated your post. It's always good to have someone who knows their stuff chip in.
I do have a question, though. You said that the devs could double their price point and expect 20% less sales, but still make more money (I could quote it, but I'm lazy.) If you could do that without any negative reactions (which is probably a pipe dream), would you? Because, on the one hand, Subterfuge is well worth $20 imo, and $20 is still less than an average board game. On the other hand, $20 is really pushing it for an app. I mean, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, which is a full $50 video game on Steam, only goes for $15 on the App Store.
So yeah, at what point does the game get "too expensive" or "too cheap"?

roadkiehl wrote:@felendis, really appreciated your post. It's always good to have someone who knows their stuff chip in.
I do have a question, though. You said that the devs could double their price point and expect 20% less sales, but still make more money (I could quote it, but I'm lazy.) If you could do that without any negative reactions (which is probably a pipe dream), would you? Because, on the one hand, Subterfuge is well worth $20 imo, and $20 is still less than an average board game. On the other hand, $20 is really pushing it for an app. I mean, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, which is a full $50 video game on Steam, only goes for $15 on the App Store.
So yeah, at what point does the game get "too expensive" or "too cheap"?

road if you want to know marketing about this mobile game your self. open google and search kickstarter. there is plenty info there about pricing and marketing stuff.

roadkiehl wrote:@felendis, really appreciated your post. It's always good to have someone who knows their stuff chip in.
I do have a question, though. You said that the devs could double their price point and expect 20% less sales, but still make more money (I could quote it, but I'm lazy.) If you could do that without any negative reactions (which is probably a pipe dream), would you? Because, on the one hand, Subterfuge is well worth $20 imo, and $20 is still less than an average board game. On the other hand, $20 is really pushing it for an app. I mean, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, which is a full $50 video game on Steam, only goes for $15 on the App Store.
So yeah, at what point does the game get "too expensive" or "too cheap"?

Great question! I have purchased a ton of board games on my iPad, but have no real business data to speak of on them, so take this with a grain of salt.

I would say $10 was a great price point, the most that I personally would have potentially priced the game is probably $14.99. My gut says a case could be made for $19.99 and I would not have regretted that decision. In my experience, its SO much easier to reduce a price later if it does not work than it is to increase it.

The more I think about it, the more I believe they probably could have rolled out L2 at $19.99 and they would of probably had this same post with the same general reactions. Conversion rate would probably be lower, but not a lot lower.

crisismana wrote:road if you want to know marketing about this mobile game your self. open google and search kickstarter. there is plenty info there about pricing and marketing stuff.

Kickstarter is a different beast. The L2 value proposition is a tangible thing in a game you are already playing. Kickstarter is asking for money (generally) based on hype for a game that isnt even made yet, that you dont know if you will even enjoy.