Specialists are so critical to Subterfuge, and I am constantly amazed to see how they can work together to create powerful combos, and at the same time, others who can counter them.

The problem is, there's little to no information available to make it clear which Specialists synergize, and which do not. Some are explicit (like the general's description explicitly synergizes with others), others are pretty obvious and maybe not needed to be explicit (like Infiltrator obviously should work together with War Hero). Other's obviously don't/shouldnt synergize (like the move speed Specialists). There are lots in the middle which are totally unclear.

I know the devs have said something to the effect that they tried to make it clear in each Specialist's description. With the highest possible respect, I have to say that it is not clear.

Solution?
Frankly I'm not sure, because I STILL don't know what the synergies rules are. Is it that all Specialists stack except for speed bonuses, in which case none stack?

If so, maybe just add a disclaimer at the bottom of the speed boost Specialists that say something like "speed bonuses do not stack, only the highest speed is applied."

If its more complex that this, perhaps an info page should be added to each specialist, which would list every specialists name in either green or red, indicating that they either do or do not synergize (however, this get more complicated when 1 part of a spec skill synergizes, while the other part does not).

subterfuge.wikia.com/wiki/Specialist_Combos

Here's a good resource fforfinding what specialists stack as well as some basic combos. I don't know what the Dev's could do to make it more noticeable but maybe a link to the wiki inside the game or something.

So does that only tell you if the specialist stacks with duplicates of itself? If so it makes sense but is limited in use (still dont know how the specialists interact with each other).

Or is it telling you if they can be used with other specialists? If so, its just not right. For example, Assassin says: No. But assassin+pirate+nav is one of the most notorious combos in the game.

You're close, they all stack/synergize. Unless the description references modifying the ordinary speed/sonar/etc.

Here are the ones that don't stack:

Pirate (always 2x ordinary sub speed towards sub, 4x away, can't be increased beyond that)

General/Lieutenant (+50% ordinary sub speed, can't be increased beyond that)

Smuggler (3x ordinary sub speed, can't be increased beyond that)

Helmsman (2x ordinary sub speed, can't be increased beyond that)

Martyr (blast radius is 20% of standard sonar range, can't be increased)

Admiral (is a special case. The global effect (+50% non-specialist subs) does stack, but the local speed boost does not

They're all speed specialists plus the martyr. With the exception that the admirals global speed boost does stack. I didn't realize that for awhile.

kevlargolem wrote:So does that only tell you if the specialist stacks with duplicates of itself? If so it makes sense but is limited in use (still dont know how the specialists interact with each other).

Or is it telling you if they can be used with other specialists? If so, its just not right. For example, Assassin says: No. But assassin+pirate+nav is one of the most notorious combos in the game.

You are mixing stacking and synergy here. The assassin doesn't stack (How could he? Killing all specialists twice?), but synergizes with nav and pirate.

Also, I don't think the devs should write down all the stacking effects and synergies somewhere. The players should discover them for themselves.

To know which effects stack you need to read the description carefully. For example martyr: It says "Blast radius is 20% of standard sonar range.". The key here is "standard", this means the blast radius won't expand with an intelligence officer. Or the Pirate: "Pirate's sub travels 2x faster than ordinary subs". Same here. Admiral otherwise: "Increases speed of all your subs that aren't carrying specialists by 50%" It says "all subs" and nothing about standard speed. This effect stacks with other speed bonusses, although the only one it can actually stack with is another Admiral because it speeds up subs with no specialists and there is no other specialist with a global speed boost.

I agree that stacking effects could be a little more obvious, but if you read carefully you can see what effects stack and what not. Synergies, on the other hand, shouldn't be too obvious. It's part of the game to find strategies for yourself and maybe share and talk about them in the forums. Or keep them for yourself and destroy your enemies with it.

Thanks Bigred, thats both really helpful in a practical sense, and helps illustrate my point that this is really unclear.

kinc4id wrote:Also, I don't think the devs should write down all the stacking effects and synergies somewhere. The players should discover them for themselves.

This is a valid school of thought. Many agree with it, but I don't. I think especially in a mobile game, keeping things as clear as possible is best. Let the challenge and complexity come through execution and diplomacy. Scouring a forum/wiki for basic info like "Will Helmsman + Admiral = 4x speed?" is not my idea of fun, nor skill.

kinc4id wrote:To know which effects stack you need to read the description carefully.

This I don't buy at all. The words "ordinary" or "all" give no indication as to what effect another one will have. "2x faster than ordinary subs" sounds very much to me like 2x faster than ordinary subs, and if I have 2 of them, they will go 4x faster than ordinary subs. Your martyr example is the only one where the language actually helps clarify.

Additionally, some of the descriptions are actually incorrect, so once noticing that, hoping that word choice will direct you to the truth is a bit silly. For example, "Saboteur: Redirects enemy sub to its owner's nearest outpost when participating in sub-to-sub combat." Thus, because Specialist phase happens before drill combat, a Specialistless sub up against a Sab should turn around before any drills are lost. However, thats not what happens: Sab will die if up against a larger drill force, and drill combat occurs as normal, before turning the enemy sub around.

Hopefully this game continues to grow, and new specialists come out. If there isnt some kind of in-game tool for explaining this stuff, the vast majority of people will play without appreciating the complexity of the specialist, and a small minority will busily scour forums for information. If you love scouring forums maybe thats the best possible system for you, but I don't think its the best thing for the player base as a whole.

kevlargolem wrote:Thanks Bigred, thats both really helpful in a practical sense, and helps illustrate my point that this is really unclear.

kinc4id wrote:Also, I don't think the devs should write down all the stacking effects and synergies somewhere. The players should discover them for themselves.

This is a valid school of thought. Many agree with it, but I don't. I think especially in a mobile game, keeping things as clear as possible is best. Let the challenge and complexity come through execution and diplomacy. Scouring a forum/wiki for basic info like "Will Helmsman + Admiral = 4x speed?" is not my idea of fun, nor skill.

Ok, I get your point. And as I said before I agree that the stacking of effects should be explained a bit clearer. But I still disagree about writing down all the synergies in the description of the specialists. Finding good combos of specialists is definitely part of the fun and skill.

kinc4id wrote:To know which effects stack you need to read the description carefully.

This I don't buy at all. The words "ordinary" or "all" give no indication as to what effect another one will have. "2x faster than ordinary subs" sounds very much to me like 2x faster than ordinary subs, and if I have 2 of them, they will go 4x faster than ordinary subs. Your martyr example is the only one where the language actually helps clarify.

Well, if you have a Pirate the sub goes 2x faster than an ordinary sub. If you put a helmsman on it it still goes 2x faster than an ordinary sub. If it would stack it would say something like "doubles the speed of the sub he is traveling with". But again, I agree that the stacking of effects can be clearer.

Additionally, some of the descriptions are actually incorrect, so once noticing that, hoping that word choice will direct you to the truth is a bit silly. For example, "Saboteur: Redirects enemy sub to its owner's nearest outpost when participating in sub-to-sub combat." Thus, because Specialist phase happens before drill combat, a Specialistless sub up against a Sab should turn around before any drills are lost. However, thats not what happens: Sab will die if up against a larger drill force, and drill combat occurs as normal, before turning the enemy sub around.

Yes, I wouldn't expect that the specialists effect happens after the combat. Although the description isn't really incorrect (the enemy sub is redirected to owner's nearest outpost, exactly like the description says) you are right that you can't expect that the saboteur will be captured if the combat is lost. This should be clarified in the description.

Hopefully this game continues to grow, and new specialists come out. If there isnt some kind of in-game tool for explaining this stuff, the vast majority of people will play without appreciating the complexity of the specialist, and a small minority will busily scour forums for information. If you love scouring forums maybe thats the best possible system for you, but I don't think its the best thing for the player base as a whole.

I just don't think the devs should hand all the synergies and combos on a plate. Players shouldn't be forced to go to the forums to see how the specialists actually work, but providing them with strategies would be too much.