You are correct. Technically you do receive more for beating the higher ranked guy but in practice finishing 3rd will get you the same gain regardless of the rankings above and below you.

The ratings of your opponents is used to formulate your expected finishing position. Finishing in exactly that position will see no change in rating. Above it will see an increase. Below, a decrease. So even though a high rated player exists in the game the only purpose they serve is that they reduce your expected finishing position making the chance to increase your rating generally easier because they are harder opponents.

ie. Last game I played I was the last player to join the game and my rating was only 1 point above the minimum to join. So everybody in the game had a higher rating than me. After looking at the live ladder I could see that finishing 5th/8 would see my rating change by +1. This tells me that according to the math, my expected finishing position was about 5.1. It didn't matter who I beat, but I just needed to beat 3 people out of 7 to maintain my rating.

The rating is saying, on average most players in this game are better than you so instead of needing to finish in the top 4 out of 8 you only need to finish the in the top 5 to see an increase (although minor). Similarly, the highest rated player in the game finished 4th and had a rating loss. The game was effectively saying that because he was better than most he needed to finish top3 out of 8 to see an increase.

So yes, teaming with the strongest player is quite often a good idea but that brings it's own problems.
1) Everybody wants to be their ally.
2) If you are successful in becoming their ally then you might be selling yourself out of a win because they are highly rated for a reason.

Champinoman wrote:...The ratings of your opponents is used to formulate your expected finishing position...
...The rating is saying, on average most players in this game are better than you so instead of needing to finish in the top 4 out of 8 you only need to finish the in the top 5 to see an increase (although minor)... The game was effectively saying that because he was better than most he needed to finish top3 out of 8 to see an increase.

I think these explanations were what was throwing me off before, because it makes it sound like the game takes it upon itself to artificially average out the ratings in some kind of non-Elo machanic to establish an average, then give +/-20 based on the predetermined average.

I think the easier way to understand it is to add up your Elo if you came in 1st (winning all 8 1v1s) against this group of 8. Then add up your (negative) Elo if you were to come in 8th (losing all 8 1v1s). -- Because you "shift" 20 regardless of who you beat, the bottom score will be 8 factors of 20 lower than the highest, and finishing anywhere in between will be that many factors off the highest/lowest.

So the game doesn't do anything to average the ratings, it just happens automatically as a byproduct of a 1v1v1v1v1 Elo system.

Champinoman wrote:So yes, teaming with the strongest player is quite often a good idea but that brings it's own problems.
1) Everybody wants to be their ally.

If only this were true

This thread has somewhat...lost focus.
If you read the title and the original post it's quite different to what we're actually discussing.
I feel as if it has just spiraled into a giant hubbub to determine exactly how the ranking system works and could work.

Isn't the point of this thread to figure out a way of making rating matter...And all the other things mentioned in the original post? If we really want to discuss, in-depth how the rating system works then should it be under another topic?

Just thought I'd pitch in and say something...

Part of making the ranking matter is to analyze whether the game is fairly and accurately determining rating reward/penalty.

But it does seem like that conversation is about wrapped up. Is there something else you wanted to discuss?

Well I hope we had some kinda prize for rating . But tbh make rating matter is the only way to make this thing alive again .

(Well prizes arent disscussed in this topic but I didnt want to open a new topic)