SUBTERFUGE Forums

I've recommended this game to multiple people who had a lukewarm response to my description of the game (willing to give it a try, but not super excited). It's free, so that's a nice incentive to get them started. Then they get to the puzzles...

They never finish the puzzles. I tell them repeatedly that the puzzles are not an actual representation of what the game is like (and they are not. They are not like the game at all). Regardless, they get to one slightly difficult puzzle, and that's it, they stop playing, help with the puzzle and multiple reminders from me are not enough to bring them back.

Please get rid of the puzzle requirement. It's a hindrance to building a player base, and it's losing this game money. I seriously doubt anyone who paid to bypass the puzzles would not have ended up paying anyway. On the other hand, I can say for sure that the puzzle requirement has driven away players who might have enjoyed the game and ended up paying for other features.

It would make 100% more sense to make watching the tutorial videos a requirement, rather than the puzzles.

I get your reasoning but taking them out means you have a bunch of players with no idea how to play or what the game is about. They do actually help when playing the game and to say they are not relevant is not true. You wont get the same exact setup but you will find things similar.

And you don't have to finish all of the puzzles to play actual games do you? Just the ones that teach you general rules about how to send subs and how to drill mines. I was in an actual game within 40 minutes of downloading it, so anyone who gets scared off by having to do those puzzles probably wouldn't like the game much anyway.

I think the begining puzzles put you in the right mindset to play the game. Aside from diplomacy, the entire other gameplay mechanics should be looked at like a puzzles that test your ability to analyze situations and determine the optimal solution. Forcing a beginning player through these puzzles will weed some of the beginners, but this weeding out might improve beginners experience.

If a new guy cannot think through a puzzle (which are sped up scenarios ina game) how will we expect them to take the time and energy to participate in a week long game. I think these puzzles might help with resign rates with new players.

yeah the whole point of the puzzles is to try and discourage the players who don't like this long drawn-out game to not play. If they did they would probably lose their first game or just resign and be discouraged as well. You have to make sure you know how to do the basic stuff and watching videos only shows you. You don't necessarily learn.
As for me, after I read the rulebook (I haven't even watched the videos yet) I saw the tactical puzzles and I decided to try them out. Only after I had completed some puzzles I saw that I had been promoted to lvl 1. I didn't even know you had to do the puzzles beforehand, and I only saw the tactics as reinforcing my knowledge of how to play the game.

I learned through the puzzles, and I think it was a great way to learn. But I see where Kevlargolem is coming from. I suggested the game to one friend, and when he opened the game up, his first reaction was, "It takes me 12 hours to finish the first puzzle? How many of these are there?"
That being said, though, I have only ever had one person I recommended the game to dislike it, and the friend I mentioned before now loves the game.

I wanted to play games with my friends, but the puzzles really slowed them down. I ended up doing the puzzles for them, and joining a game to teach them how to play. But I do understand where you are coming from Telemitry. I think there needs to be a bit of learning, but puzzles aren't the way to do it.

mathwhiz9 wrote:I wanted to play games with my friends, but the puzzles really slowed them down. I ended up doing the puzzles for them, and joining a game to teach them how to play. But I do understand where you are coming from Telemitry. I think there needs to be a bit of learning, but puzzles aren't the way to do it.

If not puzzles to learn the game, what do you recommend?

I agree there needs to be an engaging way to learn the rules but so far I've seen three of my friends give up on the game just because of the puzzles.

Do people actually have such a hard time completing the puzzles that they can't play the game? You don't need to do any of the advanced ones to get L1, do you? Almost all of the elementary and intermediate ones are basically following simple instructions, and if you're having a hard time, the hints generally help.