Don't wan't to be rude or anything but as this is an alpha i guess all feedback can be valuable. This subject is related to my first topic here

Please consider this as only my (and some of my friends who im playing with) point of view. It will be my last feedback before the full game and some hypothetic "fast" modes.

Short story: i find the game almost perfect, the gameplay, the arts, the timemachine etc but i think the scale of the game is so big that it could be a deal breaker for some (many?) people after their first game.

Long story:
I' don't know what is the targeted age, 25-45 yo active people maybe ? One of my first game is one week old and people are leaving it. The thing is the scale and the Time Machine mechanic doesn't only makes you check your phone every 2-4 hours and let you prepare your moves, it's makes you obsessed with the game.

It's paradoxal: because a game took so long you think that it should be slow and casually played but it's the opposite that happened (for me), i was thinking too much about it and the more i invested time in it the more it required my attention and the more it would get me frustrated if someone resign or get aft from the game. I can already fell the frustration:
you planed some pretty moves including chat and diplomacy and then you realize that the one you were targeting haven't login since 18hours...
In few words: investing time in this game is too risky. And yes, "it's just a game" but it's real time you're putting in it.

At first it frustrated me... Until i get bored, not bored by the game itself but by the fact that i knew that i couldn't invest more time in it, I'm working full time and only within an half week in the game i can see that the scale of the game could makes me very underproductive.

It's why i think the scale is wrong: either the game should be like all this web strategy game where things needs days or week to move/build or it should be faster, a two weeks game require too much attention for "normal" people.
Or at least, and you should consider testing it soon, let the choice of the maximum length. I think duration of a game should be taken seriously.

I know that an afternoon or even less long game will took of away a lot of the diplomacy aspect of the game but at least i will retain people from resign or getting bored.

Please again, i may be totally wrong and it can be the frustration who speaks but i had to say it.


Have you some statistics about your average current player? Do they keep playing after 1-3 games?

That said, i wish you the best to the next and will follows the progression of the game carefully.

Cheers

After I read this I had to reply.
I've only recently got accepted into this private alpha and still haven't got to play it because I dont have an APPLE device (not to mention that I Hate IPHONE) but I have read every bit of info and rules and what-have-you thats available. And although that still makes it sound as if I should have no clue how this game plays out I must mention that I am a Badged Up Veteran of a game called Neptunes Pride II : Triton which undoubtedly deeply inspired this game. And also plays out on a timescale exactly like this game.
So first let me say, that in a game like this, it is only natural to feel obsessed over it in the beginning and want to always check it. That is a feeling that will subside over time. You'll eventually, after quite a few games, be able to relax about it. In my opinion that is a sign of a great game.
Another HUGE thing to remember is that this game is still in a private testing phase. Invite only. There are probably not a huge amount of people playing it. And this type of game isn't for every one. But in my time of playing NP2 from the beginning of its inception to now, the amount of AFKers has substantially gone down.

I think this type of game, which was new to me before NP2 (which you should totally check out) can feel very overwhelming at first. It will eventually fade. But still be absolutely exciting.
I haven't even played this game yet (due to technicalities) but I am super excited!
Stick with it onecut. This feels like a very important game to be a part of.

couldn't have said it better myself, sekoms. and yes, the original Neptune's Pride is indeed the main inspiration for this game.

Here is a good story about slow gaming:

http://iq.intel.com/slow-gaming-cultura ... gry-birds/

It takes np2:triton as an example, and also playing chess or diplomacy (boardgame) by mail. And then I mean postal mail.
I think they make a good point. If a game plays slow, the impact of actions is much higher. Therefore the satisfaction of playing a game is much more higher.

I played (and now and then still play) np2:triton. Also played Diplomacy on my android by using droidippy. Classic game but diplomacy had a bit to much talk for my taste. But what they all have in common is the slow pace. I went searching all over the Internet for other slow paced games because it fits good in my real life and I really like this kind of games.

Somebody mentioned subterfuge over at pocket tactics.com (ron and noel, if you need more testers you should invite the community from that site. Great guys to play games with and I am sure most of them like this game and provide good feedback. Some of them are already testing by the way)
I am glad I found this game and being part of the testers.

Well, long story short.
Slow paced games are a different kind of games, but really worth the time.

I actually don't feel like the game is "too slow" per se, but I do feel sometimes that the games can be slightly too long.

That said, due to how so much of the combat is based around strict timing in regard to regen cycles, shield ticks, and countering other people's moves, I feel like the concept of only being able to check the game infrequently is lost.

The reality is that the larger windows between actions has really little bearing on how timing-sensitive the game is. Catching certain things within half an hour can be the difference between winning and losing, even if the travel time is 18 hours. All that actually matters is time granularity. Since the time granularity in the game currently is 10 minute ticks, you need to potentially react to any action within 10 minutes in order to properly respond.

I would say the main thing that, in theory, optimizes time spent in the game is being able to queue actions--since that means you only need to check things when other people execute actions that change your plans. However, this can become self-defeating in a way because players can queue up really complex sequences that other players only become aware of when they are executed.

Since a given player--if they want to win--needs to check on virtually every action to see if it impacts their plans, the fact that other players can queue up tons of potential actions means you still need to check the game whenever a queued action was executed in order to have an opportunity to respond accordingly. This still gives a huge advantage to those who dedicate a lot of time to checking the game regularly vs. those who simply check the game a couple times a day.

Likewise, it is exceptionally beneficial to queue things up for when people can't react (like if they are sleeping) when it is time-critical. e.g. You are 12 hours away from a base and their nearest factory is 10 hours away from a base. If you queue up the attack to initiate when they are sleeping, they have lost their reaction window since they cannot see your queued action.

I'm not sure this is specifically a bad thing, but I would say that it is a slight failure of the stated goal to 'check the game a few times a day.' In this sense, if I'm going to have to check the game regularly anyway, I would prefer to get the game over with a little faster, than to have to check regularly over 10 days or something to have a chance at winning. In the games I have played so far, the players who check the game, 'a few times a day,' basically get totally walked over within the first day or three of the game.

I am somewhat curious what impact changing the granularity of queued actions to be every 30 minutes--or even every hour!--rather than 10 minutes would have on the feeling of the game.

I agree with a lot of the stuff said above.

One thing for sure is that the "check a few times a day" is not accurate. In my most recent game, I noted in public chat that all of the active players - and even one player who had resigned!! - had been online in the game within the past 10 minutes. And I made the post after midnight.

I was thinking about the granularity issue before I read Jayde's response. That might be it.

I also think the timing in general might be off. But instead of making the game faster, make it slower.

I'm not that good when it comes to explain my feelings / feedback in english so it's why my OP (and title) was kind of misundrestood.
But Jayde nailed it, also czechcongo: it excaclty what i mean by too slow or not enough.

The granularity term used by Jayde define perfectly where the frustration may comes. Even if i won an Outpost, i feel bad about taken it just because my opponent forgot to check his phone during the last 4-5 hours and let his Martyr explode.

My aim was to point out that i feel some contradictions between the scale of the game, the plateform it is on (mobile) and the attention it requiert. This "combo" makes me unable to play it in my enviroment without either compromise the game or my job (active 33 yo white male).

This aspect may, again i haven't the truth, be a flaw and i though it was worth pointing it out.

I can't see any way to change the time scale without creating new potential issues.

It seems about perfect the way it is set up now, and at least for me, manageable.

My only concern is an impact on player adoption and sustainability.

It might not be the game for you, or the game you want it to be, but it is Subterfuge, and I like it.

One of the features we're hoping to implement (either for launch or shortly after) is letting people tweak the speed of the games. Some people will want to play a 100x game in one afternoon, and some others maybe want to play it at half speed (or slower) so they can just check it once a day.

As it is, we don't want to make it faster by default because it will impact people being away for more than 8 hours (aka sleep).

We might make it a bit shorter than it is now, and we also removed the option of buying specialists with Np. That will make it so there are fewer really fast subs zipping around.

If you played the 100x game, would the time steps still be in 10 minutes of real-time and the travel times reduced? That seems interesting for a quick game.

I wonder if it would make sense to have the time/queue steps be variable as well. For some people, the pace that we're playing at right now is probably fine--I, personally, find it pretty fun...although taxing and not casual at all--but I could see a serious argument for people who do truly only want to check in on the game a handful of times during the day.