turnout wrote:A lot of good thinking on both sides here. I'm honestly not sure where my opinion falls. In my experience, however, I don't think multiple stacked kings is as OP as people think or assume. And if you haven't actually played at least one or two games where you or an opponent has had 3-5 kings, I'd encourage you to reserve judgment until you have (e.g. see
here for example of almost useless 4-King stack). I've found that after the combination of lost shields, driller cap, and especially the need to have most-to-all drillers combined in one sub to really make it worthwhile . . . . it can really leave whole swathes of territory exposed. I think the OP-ness is way overestimated.
But that's not why I wanted to post! I wanted to play devil's advocate for a minute: Let's grant for a moment that stacked Kings are very OP. Why is that bad? I'd suggest that it's good because it ultimately helps ensure the game ends (as opposed to continuing indefinitely because everything is perfectly balanced). This is even more important now with Domination mode, which we're all finding can stretch on painfully long despite allegedly OP King stacks. The point is, having everything be "perfectly" balanced could detract from enjoyment of the game by creating more 'stalemates' and/or causing the game to drag out much much longer, especially in Domination mode. Don't forget, it takes a long time and a lot of hires to accumulate 4+ Kings, which I'd say auto-balances things nicely.
You do make some good points here, and you are right that the king has some downfalls ( downfalls that can be covered by other specialists that will eventually become availabe) and everyone and their cat has a tale of how they defeated a guy who stacked Kings.
The Staked King is definitely beatable- That's not the argument
Dominion Stalemates can definitely be a pain and some kings is an ok Tie breaker- But lets try to stick with Vanilla here- The way the game was balanced and designed to be played initially.
I am seeing Kings a lot more than when I first started- When kings where considered more of a glass cannon type pick of a specialist they are now considered a powerful strategy with a decent win rate and limited counter play. King+King+Speed+Production=Win or at least a force to deal with.
The question I want to ask is this: Is the ability to increase the global value of your drillers repeatedly, with the only consequence being your shields, Healthy for the game?
By Value I mean that each King makes every driller worth 33% more than an average driller- Often 2 Kings is the most common and shows the stacking effect so 66%
If combat ensues and you don't have at least 66% of his drillers, then the enemy drillers can get out without a scratch- essentially giving them a kind of shield- A barrier of 'Must be this tall to touch me'
That essentially means that an opponent must be able to match you in both driller count and production by 66% for it to be a fair fight driller to driller. They better pray that they have been hiring driller destroying specialists to mitigate that loss.
The counters to the King are as such:
Shields- Security Chief- The Kings 66% guard cannot wipe out shields so losses are taken
Countercounter- Infiltrator- A single hire...neat
- Engineer can take the sting away
Thief- Actually stacks with high enemy driller count and is a single hire woot woot
Countercounter- you'll lose him if you send him alone and must be sent on the offensive
General Combo- Takes as many hires as a king but is reusable to widdle down thier drillers
CounterCounter- Reusable until they get their hands on a assassin- come in two for the hire of one
Diplomacy- Everybody attack his weak underside! Depends on who your playing with.
Attacking a stacked king is a bloody process that does weaken most who go for it- Unless everybody does it then those who side with the King will be healthier than those who go through the conflict. The damage a Raging Vengeful Stacked King is enough for many to opt out.
Even if it costs a whole 4 specialist hire's, is there another 4 specialist that is this strong and grueling to deal with?
Every game I have been in since 2 weeks ago has had a stacked king- Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, But the dread that comes with dealing with stacked kings is annoying as hell.
Oh better drop my grudging battle with Teal so I can try and stop this Double king from snowballing into being unstoppable.
If I see another player hire a hypnotist I have to change my game plan, allies, future hires, driller placement, everything- I don't think a single specialist line should have that power. I don't think its healthy.
I don't want people to start playing like "First to hire 2 kings wins woo"
Thoughts?