How I would rework specialists to provide variable gameplay:

Strategy, feedback, or anything SUBTERFUGE-related

  • My goal isn't to completely remove specialist stacking, but to stop it where it's ruins the game. (Vision, Sub Speed) And to balance the rest of the specialists in a way that makes ALL of them closer to the same value. Therefore, increasing their use, gameplay diversity, and the depth of gameplay.

    This is how I would start - Specialists with an * have been changed. Those changes are in Italics:

    • Diplomat
      Releases all captive specialists you own that are being held at an outpost within Diplomat's outpost's sonar range.
    • Revered Elder
      No other specialists participate in combat, unless both sides have a Revered Elder.
      Combat priority: 2
    • Foreman
      Produces 6 additional drillers with each production cycle while at a factory.
      Promotes to: Engineer
    • Engineer*
      Global: Repairs 25% of the drillers you lose in combat (rounded up) after each combat you win. Local: 25% are repaired after combat taking place where Engineer is present (rounded up). A Maximum of [75-100%] of drillers can be repaired per battle.
    • Pirate*
      Sub carrying Pirate can target another sub. When targeting a sub, the Pirate's sub travels 2x faster than standard sub speed, then travels at 4x normal speed to nearest friendly outpost. - (Standard subs, not ordinary. Admiral gives the pirate a small boost, which helps with targeting other subs with a speed boost in the mid-late game)
    • Lieutenant
      Destroys 5 enemy drillers when participating in combat, travels 50% faster than ordinary subs.
      Combat priority: 7
      Promotes to: General
    • General*
      Global: General destroys 10 enemy drillers after the specialist stage in each combat in which you have a specialist present after the specialists phase. Local: Travels 50% faster than ordinary subs..
    • Princess*
      Increases her outpost's sonar range by 50% of standard range. If you lose control of your Queen, the closest Princess becomes the new Queen.
    • Infiltrator*
      Local: Drains 20 from the shield charge of any outpost it attacks. Global: Each additional Infiltrator drains an additional 10 from the shield charge when attacking an outpost.
      Combat priority: 4
    • Sentry
      Fires on an enemy sub once every 2 hours while at an outpost. Each shot destroys 5% of drillers rounded up. Sentry's range is half of its outpost's sonar range. Target is chosen to maximize damage.
      Promotes to: War Hero
    • War Hero*
      Destroys 20 enemy drillers when participating in combat. Every 5 days this amount is increased by 15.
      Combat priority: 7
    • Intelligence Officer*
      Increases your sonar range by 25% of standard sonar range. Shows you the type of all outposts that are outside your sonar range.
    • Tinkerer*
      Increases your electrical output by 3 times Tinkerer's outpost's maximum shield charge. Tinkerer's outpost's shield charge is drained at 3 units per hour. Tinkers are hate each other, and as such, only one Tinker can boost production per base.
      Promotes to: Minister of Energy
    • Minister of Energy
      Global: Adds 300 to your electrical output. Your factories produce 1 driller less each production cycle.
    • Saboteur
      Redirects enemy sub to its owner's nearest outpost when participating in sub-to-sub combat.
      Amount: 2
      Combat priority: 3
    • Assassin
      Kills all enemy specialists present when participating in combat.
      Amount: 2
      Combat priority: 6
    • Inspector
      Fully charges the shields of a friendly outpost upon arrival and after every combat while he's present.
      Promotes to: Security Chief
    • Security Chief
      Global: Adds 10 to max shield charge of all your outposts. Local: Adds 10 to max shield charge of Security Chief's outpost.
    • Double Agent
      When participating in sub-to-sub combat, drillers on both subs are destroyed, subs swap ownership along with any specialists aboard, and combat ends.
      Combat priority: 5
    • Queen
      Adds 20 to her outpost's maximum shield charge. If you acquire another Queen, she becomes a Princess. Queen may periodically hire specialists.
    • Thief
      Converts 15% of enemy's drillers (rounded up) to your side when attacking an outpost, or in sub to sub combat.
      Combat priority: 4
    • Smuggler
      Travels 3x faster than ordinary subs while heading for one of its owner's outposts.
      Promotes to: Tycoon
    • Tycoon*
      Global: Speeds up your driller production rate by 50%. Decreases supply cap by 50. Local: Produces 3 additional drillers with each production cycle while at a factory.
    • Navigator*
      Owner may change course of sub carrying Navigator. Subs with Navigators travel at .75x of the maximum possible Speed. Navigators can target ships.
      Promotes to: Admiral
    • Admiral*
      Global: Increases speed of all your subs that aren't carrying specialists by 50% of ordinary subs. Local: Admiral travels 2x faster than ordinary subs.
    • Martyr
      Destroys all subs and outposts within Martyr's blast radius when participating in combat. Blast radius is 20% of standard sonar range.
      Combat priority: 1
    • Helmsman
      Travels 2x faster than ordinary subs.
    • Hypnotist
      Takes control of all captured specialists present at his outpost.
      Promotes to: King
    • King*
      Global: Destroys 1 enemy driller for every 3 of your drillers that remain after specialist phase in every combat you are involved. Reduces supply cap by 50.
    Last edited by topkilla on Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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  • For the most part I agree with you. But with regards to the navigator, that kills the specialist... For instance, an average outpost is roughly 12 hours away from another. Which means it would take a navigator (*drum roll please*) a whopping two days to get from point a to point b. I don't know about you, but I can win wars in two days, easy.
    Last edited by roadkiehl on Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Infiltrator change seems pretty neat-
    But two questions:
    1 Does the navigators debuff to speed apply to other specialist on board, or does it simply become overwritten- Like road I am a bit apprehensive about this Navigator change- She is somewhat strong, and nerfing her type of mobility is tough- Maybe Limit the amount of times she can change course between outpost stops?
    A speed downgrade seems a bit harsh but I suppose but it could be interesting if you meant for it to hinder other speed specialists
    2 What is the difference in the Admiral from the original?

    Other wise good pick.
    I might lessen up on the war hero's scaling- 15 per day seems like a leap. He's versatile in that he can be used for both attacking and defending.

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  • janitorialduties wrote:Infiltrator change seems pretty neat-
    But two questions:
    1 Does the navigators debuff to speed apply to other specialist on board, or does it simply become overwritten- Like road I am a bit apprehensive about this Navigator change- She is somewhat strong, and nerfing her type of mobility is tough- Maybe Limit the amount of times she can change course between outpost stops?
    A speed downgrade seems a bit harsh but I suppose but it could be interesting if you meant for it to hinder other speed specialists
    2 What is the difference in the Admiral from the original?

    Other wise good pick.
    I might lessen up on the war hero's scaling- 15 per day seems like a leap. He's versatile in that he can be used for both attacking and defending.

    Engineer- Thank you


    The Infiltrator change may or may not be a bit too much. But its a start to making it more useful in the late game.


    I changed the description on the Nav a bit. Hopefully it helps explain the speed reduction better. I don't want the Nav to have a hard fixed speed at .75x. But a .75 reduction of the maximum possible speed. For example:

    • Sub with Nav (No Admiral Global Effect) = .75x Speed
    • Sub with Nav (Admiral Global Effect) = 1.125x Speed
    • Sub with Nav + Lieutenant/General = 1.125x Speed
    • Sub with Nav + Helmsman/Admiral/Pirate (While Targeting) = 1.5x Speed
    • Sub with Nav + Smuggler (While Traveling to Owners Outpost) = 2.25x Speed

    The Speed Reduction is mainly added due to giving Nav's the ability to intercept ships. (Like a Pirate without the speed boost.) So that the Pirate is not the only thing that can counter a Nav ship.


    I worded the Admiral funky as well. But basically, I'm looking for it to not stack more than once.


    The War Hero scaling isn't 15+/day. but 15+ every 5 days. So he kills 20 on Days 1-5, 35 on Days 6-10, 50 on Days 11-15, and so on.
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  • I think the developers have done a great job balancing the game. But everyone is entitled to their opinion of changed. Of which, here's mine:

    The navigator is fine as is. And speed change might be to cap high speed units eg smuggler or helmsman. But I think it would just complicate things.

    Infiltrator could use a tweak. Maybe a 5 shield global instead of ten.

    War hero: rather than +15 every five days, a +2 per successful combat as the legend of the war hero gradually increases? :)

    Martyr I wish stacked with princesses to INCREASE the range. Wouldn't help gameplay but it would be really funny seeing a single sub with two princesses and a martyr take out large areas thermonuclear-style. :P

    My major concern is the more complicated the specialists become, the more we lose newbie players and create more bugs.

    But really it's pretty close to perfection as is.
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  • carter j burke wrote:Martyr I wish stacked with princesses to INCREASE the range. Wouldn't help gameplay but it would be really funny seeing a single sub with two princesses and a martyr take out large areas thermonuclear-style. :P

    100% right there. It kinda sucks that a martyr has limited range. It's a one use thing, after it blows up you have to hire another one. But multiple outposts blown up at once, that would be epic.
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  • mathwhiz9 wrote:
    carter j burke wrote:Martyr I wish stacked with princesses to INCREASE the range. Wouldn't help gameplay but it would be really funny seeing a single sub with two princesses and a martyr take out large areas thermonuclear-style. :P

    100% right there. It kinda sucks that a martyr has limited range. It's a one use thing, after it blows up you have to hire another one. But multiple outposts blown up at once, that would be epic.

    I suggested elsewhere that if a martyr's detonation contained a second martyr, it would increase the blast radius. Or you could increase the radius based on how many drillers are present on the martyr's sub or outpost. This would cause you to potentially sacrifice a lot of your own drillers with the martyr.


    Ok here are all my thoughts:

    I think the War Hero's change is odd and overpowered. I like the idea carter j burke suggested of it increasing with every combat, but that would be a strange mechanic and it could snowball out of control. If an ally just sent a bunch of 1 driller subs towards your War Hero, you could get a specialist that destroys 100s of drillers.

    I have a personal suggestion for the king, although I haven't done any math to test it. What if its effect was only when you were attacking?

    You didn't change the General, although you starred it.

    Does the tycoon really need a debuff? If anything, I feel that it should at least be percentage based, so that it is still useful for people with low caps already. As a solid 50, the effect is minimal for someone who is dominating, but very serious for someone with only a few outposts, and they are probably using the smuggler defensively then. I'd say that decreasing your cap by 10%-25% would be better.

    I don't like the navigator changes.

    I think that's all I have to say.
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  • Or you know we could accept that it's not going to be changed and move on with the game. For an idea that is 100x easier to implement for the devs rather than rework every single global is to see "The Chancellor" specialist topic, it solves everything.
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  • I changed the description on the Nav a bit. Hopefully it helps explain the speed reduction better. I don't want the Nav to have a hard fixed speed at .75x. But a .75 reduction of the maximum possible speed. For example:

    Sub with Nav (No Admiral Global Effect) = .75x Speed
    Sub with Nav (Admiral Global Effect) = 1.125x Speed

    You do realize that because a Navigator counts as a specialist it does not receive the Admiral boost, meaning the only way you could have a Navigator move at the speed of a normal sub is through having another specialist on board, and having to use two of your three specialist spots in order to have a navigator to move at the same pace as a sub is really crippling.
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  • r10t-- wrote:Or you know we could accept that it's not going to be changed and move on with the game. For an idea that is 100x easier to implement for the devs rather than rework every single global is to see "The Chancellor" specialist topic, it solves everything.


    Of course you could argue that putting in this specialist would force the devs to rework other specialists so they properly interact with the Chancellor :lol:
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