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Quickplay and features

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:45 am
by tw2000
I've heard the Devs are implementing a new x100 speed version of this game, which is roughly going to take about 3 hours to play. Firstly I'd just like to say (if the Devs check the forums often) that if L1 players are allowed to play these games, that they should also be allowed to play both a fast game and a slow game at the same time. If not, many L1 players would probably resort to not playing slow games and just play fast games instead.

I had also been wondering about something else that I have seen mentioned in the forums a couple of times, which could be an addition to a faster time control. Many people have 'complained' about the unfairness of this game, and how you don't have much control over the aspect of diplomacy (not control as such, but rather just influence) as much as one has control over tactics and strategy. Other's have tried had to play against multiboxers. What I think should come with a faster time control is that a 1v1 be implemented. This would be designed to test purely skill and nothing else. The game board would be symmetrical and the players would have the same hire options as each other for each hire. The reason I suggest that it be implemented with a fast game mode speed is that with a slow game mode speed... I mean, has anyone ever played a 1v1? Like the person who starts out with a better outpost position and specialist hires will almost certainly win the game. However with this symmetrical layout and similar hire options you would really be able to test who can get the upper hand at the start of the game. In fact now that I think about it this could also be implemented into slow game modes (because L2 people might try it). But with slower games it becomes a test of 'who can check their game the most often' and so on, as opposed to 'who is the one that can outthink and outplay the other person'. So actually probably fast games would be the optimal choice here.

Ok, so 1v1 might sound a bit too unsocial for many, so another idea here is to implement teams, but only 2 teams (if there were 3 teams 2 could join together to destroy the other one). However this won't be as skill-dependent because you won't really be able to do anything about who is in your team.

Another thing that I want to mention (and I have mentioned this before) is to add a customisable time scale as a scrolling UI in the game creation panel. I think, however, that it should be implemented as a L2 feature so that buying L2 becomes even more beneficial and more appealing for L1s. It would just be a question of whether the cost of developing this option is worth the effort, because I can't see anything that can't be solved (e.g. the 10 minute timer for sub launch would be reduced to about 1.5 seconds at x400 speed, but that can easily be fixed by allowing a time period between 1.5 seconds and 10 minutes to confirm the launch.) When paired with the 1v1 concept, I think x400 speed games would actually work quite well, since you won't really need to talk as much in 1v1s.

Those are just my thoughts, any criticism/feedback is welcome :)

Re: Quickplay and features

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:06 am
by aclonicy
Interesting observations, but I see the game choice the other way around. As an l1 I would only ever join the slow games. The fast game idea doesn't interest me as much. I could see how it would be tempting to new players though.

Re: Quickplay and features

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:53 am
by bags
Really? A 100x speed.. uhg.

I was hoping for a bunch of choices more in the range of 2x - 10x along with the ability to pause it over night. I'd love 2-3x as fast but not running all day.

Re: Quickplay and features

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:51 pm
by tw2000
bags wrote:Really? A 100x speed.. uhg.

I was hoping for a bunch of choices more in the range of 2x - 10x along with the ability to pause it over night. I'd love 2-3x as fast but not running all day.

Well anything between x2 speed to about x15 speed can be instantly ruled out because too many things will happen during the night which you won't be able to be present for. e.g. in a x3 game 3 times more things will happen while your asleep, which would be really bad :( I suspect the first person to sleep will be the first to be attacked

Re: Quickplay and features

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:55 pm
by tw2000
aclonicy wrote:Interesting observations, but I see the game choice the other way around. As an l1 I would only ever join the slow games. The fast game idea doesn't interest me as much. I could see how it would be tempting to new players though.

Really? I think younger players (like me) would love to be able to finish a game in under an hour. In fact there probably aren't as many young players playing Subterfuge as there are in other games because of the amount of patience you have to have to wait for things to happen and also because you actually need to outthink your opposition because so much time is available to think.

Re: Quickplay and features

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:11 pm
by bags
tw2000 wrote:
bags wrote:Really? A 100x speed.. uhg.

I was hoping for a bunch of choices more in the range of 2x - 10x along with the ability to pause it over night. I'd love 2-3x as fast but not running all day.

Well anything between x2 speed to about x15 speed can be instantly ruled out because too many things will happen during the night which you won't be able to be present for. e.g. in a x3 game 3 times more things will happen while your asleep, which would be really bad :( I suspect the first person to sleep will be the first to be attacked


I recommend reading my entire post next time :)

Re: Quickplay and features

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:47 pm
by carter j burke
Just my opinion but I don't see the appeal of reducing subterfuge to a fast game. I can't see myself dedicating a solid three hours to a game ...unless I was suffering the ill effects of a bad burrito. :lol: :p

Re: Quickplay and features

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:41 pm
by stormeagle
tw2000 wrote:Another thing that I want to mention (and I have mentioned this before) is to add a customisable time scale as a scrolling UI in the game creation panel. I think, however, that it should be implemented as a L2 feature so that buying L2 becomes even more beneficial and more appealing for L1s. It would just be a question of whether the cost of developing this option is worth the effort, because I can't see anything that can't be solved (e.g. the 10 minute timer for sub launch would be reduced to about 1.5 seconds at x400 speed, but that can easily be fixed by allowing a time period between 1.5 seconds and 10 minutes to confirm the launch.)


This sounds fantastic

Re: Quickplay and features

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:14 pm
by tw2000
carter j burke wrote:Just my opinion but I don't see the appeal of reducing subterfuge to a fast game. I can't see myself dedicating a solid three hours to a game ...unless I was suffering the ill effects of a bad burrito. :lol: :p

Yes I do realise there is a roughly split consensus, with people either wanting quickplay a lot or not that much. But I guess you could finish more games in a shorter amount of time in quickplay. But I mean, quick chess is so much more played than slow chess because its so much more exciting and the tables can turn more often and quicker. Also you actually have the chance of playing the same person another time to get revenge :)