silverberg wrote:I wish to join the Resistance. This day, we shall assert our independence of these tyrannous Mods. Though I've served well with some of the Mods and their Sympathizers in the past, I cannot stand for their authority now. Governments ought to fear their governed, not rule over them as tyrants, for only through this can one ensure peace and prosperity for the common men.

Have I heard this from somewhere...

janitorialduties wrote:Have I heard this from somewhere...

I was thinking of Thomas Jefferson's "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
But V was a great movie, and I remember the main character referencing Jefferson in one of his first speeches as well.

Ayy. Comrades! The day I've warned about is drawing near! There's been a great increase in moderation action! Soon comrades! We all may be moderated and only allowed to view posts created moderator controlled robots!

Tell me Comrades. When this day shall come, who will discuss the finer points of specialist balance? Who will create a hypothetical situation in order to project the correctness of their theory? Who will spam nonsensical insults at any and everyone?

Tell me Comrades! Is such a world a place in which you want to live in?

topkilla wrote:Ayy. Comrades! The day I've warned about is drawing near! There's been a great increase in moderation action! Soon comrades! We all may be moderated and only allowed to view posts created moderator controlled robots!

Tell me Comrades. When this day shall come, who will discuss the finer points of specialist balance? Who will create a hypothetical situation in order to project the correctness of their theory? Who will spam nonsensical insults at any and everyone?

Tell me Comrades! Is such a world a place in which you want to live in?

Comrade Topkilla,
As one of the four players that have led the downfall of modarchy, I still want to say that discussing a topic for a 101th time is pointless, and polluting. You can discuss as long as it is private, or as long as other people can also keep up with it.

niverio wrote:Comrade Topkilla,
As one of the four players that have led the downfall of modarchy, I still want to say that discussing a topic for a 101th time is pointless, and polluting. You can discuss as long as it is private, or as long as other people can also keep up with it.

In all seriousness. The problem with the specialists is that theres a problem with them. - The overwhelmingly deciding factor of the game is typically made up of the specialists you choose and how well they are able to work together.

The fact that the topic is a constant point of deliberation is just proof that such a problem exists... Even if it's simplified down to "Kings are overpowered".

Now, with all the focus here on "how to support Subterfuge", "how to help new players", and all other related topics. The fact remains that all those subjects are useless unless the underlying problem with subterfuge as a whole is addressed. - Specialist Balance.

As Noel said;

Noel wrote:Specialists are the bread and butter of the game.

You are right, Topkilla. There is a problem with specialist balance, that is correct. However, the main discussions (with TW and all the others) are not about this fact.
Everybody who is arguing knows that this problem exists and is also influencing the game very much. However, the debates only show (taking the last TW TK discussion for example) that Kings AND Generals are overpowered. You both even did long math calculations to show that. Your debate turned into: ''Are Generals or Kings more powerful?'', which is not a productive discussion to take up 8 pages of a thread.

niverio wrote:Comrade Topkilla,
As one of the four players that have led the downfall of modarchy

As another of the players that helped bring justice to the Mods and helped freedom continue to reign here on the forums...
(Well done Anti-Mod Team! Our legacy has been immortalized in the Trophy Case!)

topkilla wrote:The problem with the specialists is that theres a problem with them. - The overwhelmingly deciding factor of the game is typically made up of the specialists you choose and how well they are able to work together.

I couldn't disagree more.

Yes, specialists are not particularly balanced. Some are weak, some are only good in combinations, others can be extremely situational, and some are strong both on their own AND can create powerful advantages. Those things are true, and the randomness of specialist hires does have an effect on the game.

However, "the overwhelmingly deciding factor of the game" is not the specialists; It is the diplomacy. And quite frankly, I am not sure how anyone can argue against that point.

In my opinion, it seems that diplomacy (or diplomatic subterfuge), is intended to be the most influential aspect of the game; it is certainly the most complicated part, the most intriguing, and sometimes the most frustrating or disappointing.

The endless diplomatic options is what makes this game amazing, with or without specialist balance.

The most OP thing is funding stacking.. SHOOOOOOOOT. When those two bottom guys battle it out and ignore everyone else but one guy has the funding and the other doesn't. Sure the game may be lost for them or they ignore the entire purpose of the game and just kept duking it out but still! Its like a gentleman's duel! A game within a game! And funding is unpredictable! You send a sub expecting so much production and some much capacity then ding.. a new funding source has arrived. GAHHHH! Time to go back to the chalkboard lets see I need now 20 more drillers. Where am I going to find 20 more drillers. I know I'm going to purposely send 200 drillers at a sentry just so they can be shot down so I won't be maxed out and then I'll have 20 more drillers. BHWHHAHAAHH. The war isn't over yet! I will get your mine.. It might not make a difference but that mine is going to the heavens! And 4 man alliances in OP in a 8 player game. Statistically the other 4 players will probably not make an alliance. Then you divide up the chips and salsa. You just rip open the bag and see where the chips fall and that is how much chips each of the 4 remaining players get. Usually they will be like will whoever gets gold, bronze or silver or sometimes they fight it out. So you get a game of taste my 4 man alliance you plebs to okay we won... spend 3 days cleaning up broken glass. Wait 3 days for for someone to hit 200 nep. Then there is the congratulations of the politicians where they gather around and is like nice job.. yes, yes. And the gold medal goes to XXXXXXXXXX who basically attacked 1 base, mined and that is it. And then if you get really crazy you get a bunch of kings and admirals with a navigator in a sub and two players pass it around like hot cakes. Hey can I get that at 1400, a enemy driller will land and then the other guy is like sure but I need it at 1500. Okay just send 1 drillers afterward and keep gifting the specialist back and forth. Also colors man... colors... And why can't queen have any drillers! I know its interesting but sometimes its a handicap when you spawn with your queen next to a factory expansion and the enemy gets it because you have no drillers so you send your queen there just to guard it with no drillers. RARRRRRRRRRRRR. It is sometimes funny. I just had coffee. I have no clue what I'm talking about.

Uh,

radioactivity wrote:Uh,

That is some quick meme. I'm beginning to think you have a library ready for anything.