SUBTERFUGE Forums

All of my recent games had the winner decided by whomever got two kings first. That first king people wait on because he has a serious drawback. Whomever gets that lucky 2nd hypno goes two kings immediately and just destroys everyone around them and goes on to win.

I didn't get a single hypno in my current game yet and one guy is at three kings...he is unstoppable.

A race for kings is not fun with the randomness of specialists.

Yep. It really does suck. I was in a game once, where there were 5 people left and a total of 20 kings in play. One person had 7 kings, it was annoying as all heck. I sometimes do wish people wouldn't always go for kings, but they are really good

I understand your frustration, gardengnome, but there are a number of ways to deal with stacked kings. 1) Use a Double Agent (paired with a speed specialist to get him in position) to destroy the single big sub that stacked kings usually force players to use. 2) Use a General (or multiple Generals) paired with specialists sent out individually on separate subs to destroy large numbers of drillers in the pre-combat stage. Bonus points if you have a Pirate (or Diplomat) to steal back the captured specialists.

This topic has actually been discussed quite extensively on the forum, already, though, so I'd encourage you to find and read some of those threads for further insight. There is quite a passionate debate between those who believe multiple kings is un-balanced and those who don't think it's a problem.

DEATH TO THE KINGS!! KILL THE MASTERS! MHYSA MHYSA THE UNBURNT!

turnout wrote:believe multiple kings is un-balanced and those who don't think it's a problem.

Sorry to beat a dead horse Turntsnaco, but I think the real fissure is between these two factions-
those who think the king is game breaking and unbearable to deal with and
those who think countering is possible if annoying to deal with.

I don't think I could find a soul who would say the king doesn't need a bit of a nerf.

I'm half tempted to write a King post to end all King posts and sticky it as it is a common trend so see a king post pop up every once in a while.

gardengnome wrote:one guy is at three kings...he is unstoppable.

No, he isn't. And not even close.

turnout wrote:I'd encourage you to find and read some of those threads for further insight.

Yes, this. There are plenty of good strategies. Don't forget that this game is still primarily about diplomacy. Someone with multiple kings is still at a disadvantage against multiple players.

From a tactical standpoint, though, the main thing is to NOT fight with drillers. Use sentries, combo specialists together like the general and thief, utilize shields, and counter-attack. The biggest advantage that kings have, in my opinion, is intimidation; that intimidation often leads players to passivity or indecisiveness. Don't let them bully you - hit the spots they leave open and move in behind them, and just keep dodging the big subs.

Quite in fact, if anyone has two kings after four hires but I have a smuggler, helmsman, inspector, sentry - I like my chances much better than theirs.

janitorialduties wrote:I'm half tempted to write a King post to end all King posts and sticky it as it is a common trend so see a king post pop up every once in a while.

DO IT! In that post, as well, remind people that players do not instantly have stacked kings - it takes many days for this to happen - and there are so many things players can do to prepare for them before then.

bangerz wrote:DEATH TO THE KINGS!! KILL THE MASTERS! MHYSA MHYSA THE UNBURNT!

Sorry, but Dany is off to Vaes Dothrak.

Hahahahaha great (in case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic) another one of these.

I seriously don't think it's the fact that multiple kings are too OP. I think there is a general consensus that they are better than other stacks (and I'm not convinced to be honest with you) But seriously, when was the last time you saw another person have 2 of some other promoted spec (such as the general or the tycoon)? Actually, I think there is one spec which is broken. But's its not the king. It's the general. Ok, so how? Lets assume someone with 3 kings launches 90 drillers at you. Of course, you, having 3 generals, have a lot of your specialists on your boarder ready to counter his attack. So you simply launch 3 specialists at his sub, and then retrieve them with your pirate, and there you go, you just saved yourself 180 drillers without wasting a single driller. So efficient, yet so deadly.

I think the only reason generals are neglected is because they are hard to master. Kings are straightfoward - you only need drillers to do more damage. Generals have a special set of specialists that they work well with: pirate, navigator, diplomat, assassins, saboteurs, infiltrators. Everything else works great with generals as well. But I think it's the complexity of generals that make them so hard to use.

Oh geez another one of these.

Let's not devolve this into another TW vs TK. Look at that thread, 9 pages of what first started as an argument with kings, and then ended up at vaccines somehow?

juanma206 wrote:Oh geez another one of these.

Let's not devolve this into another TW vs TK. Look at that thread, 9 pages of what first started as an argument with kings, and then ended up at vaccines somehow?

Hahahahaha that was fun. But since you love debating as well, why don't we make it TW vs JM this time!!! (JM being juanma206 )

tw2000 wrote:Hahahahaha great (in case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic) another one of these.

I seriously don't think it's the fact that multiple kings are too OP. I think there is a general consensus that they are better than other stacks (and I'm not convinced to be honest with you) But seriously, when was the last time you saw another person have 2 of some other promoted spec (such as the general or the tycoon)? Actually, I think there is one spec which is broken. But's its not the king. It's the general. Ok, so how? Lets assume someone with 3 kings launches 90 drillers at you. Of course, you, having 3 generals, have a lot of your specialists on your boarder ready to counter his attack. So you simply launch 3 specialists at his sub, and then retrieve them with your pirate, and there you go, you just saved yourself 180 drillers without wasting a single driller. So efficient, yet so deadly.

I think the only reason generals are neglected is because they are hard to master. Kings are straightfoward - you only need drillers to do more damage. Generals have a special set of specialists that they work well with: pirate, navigator, diplomat, assassins, saboteurs, infiltrators. Everything else works great with generals as well. But I think it's the complexity of generals that make them so hard to use.

As I already told you and you failed to understand. Generals are not neglected because they are hard to master. They are neglected because their ROI is nowhere near that of the King. AND you have to dedicate an entire tech tree of other specialists for the best possible outcome.

You are not some superstar player genius because you use generals.