SUBTERFUGE Forums

chattnooga wrote:Space ships and submarines are remarkably similar when you think about it...
Pressurized capsules carrying people through a medium that is unsurvivavle.

I think XKCD did a 'What If' about a submarine in space actually.

Yes, XKCD did do one.. Suffice to say, as long as you are fine freezing to death, the sub itself might be able to survive the pressure.

Maybe you could have mining or something similar and say first to get certain number of outposts OR first to mine a certain amount wins. I think that could work. The biggest problem I see though is the privacy and publicity of the chat window which would be extremely hard to recreate with a board game setting and also the whole sonar range thing. These are two very key aspects of subterfuge and which separate it from a lot of tabletop strategy games. The only solution I can think of is have everyone get their phones and play a game of subterfuge while sitting in the same room (or house maybe) for an hour or two with the speeds all cranked up lol

blobbydude wrote:The reason it's 3D printed is so other people can actually play the game, because it's not like I can start manufacturing game copies. But anybody with access to a 3D Printer could download some files and make it.

Cuz everyone has a 3d printer .

Hey! Time for another update. This thing is actually due in the next week, so expect another one at some point, plus some flashy links to the .stl files in case one of you is hiding a 3D printer. (Or needs an excuse to get one.)



Here's the game board laid out for a two player match. A bit larger than I'd like, but nobody likes lots of tiny pieces. I actually think it just might be fun, but of course I haven't played a game yet. Either way, still worth trying.

Hey! Look at that! It's all done and online. Last update to the thread, I just didn't want to leave you hanging.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2251577

Hey!

What about printing small cards in a normal (2D) printer, too? Every spaceship (submarine) could have a number on it's top, and a card made of thick paper or plastic, which has the same number on it. Every card would have some picture on it, to look cool, and let's say 5 red circles. Each circle means 1 hours of traveling. Thick plastic circles in the same size would be printed too. There would be a SAIL! or GO! or some other small text on it. In each turn, the player will put 1 plastic circle on the next red cirle. This way the travels could be easily tracked. But of course, not every outpost can be reached in the same time. Some are closer, some are further. It is a possible solution, that every outpost's card has a "Travel Time" on it, or whatever you want to call it.

So for example:
I would like to travel from DEJONGH to HAGAI. I check HAGAI's Travel Time. HAGAI's OC (Outpost Card) says 3 hours. So I choose a SC (Spaceship Card) and put some fighting things on it (You'll decide ). Every turn I put a plastic TC (Traveling Circle) to one of the red circles of the spaceship. After putting my 3rd TC on my SC, combat happens.

But of course, it is not realistic, that HAGAI is 3 hours from every single outpost. For this reason, every card would show you 3 other informations about other outposts, like:
-2 hours to SHANEWILLE
+1 hours to VERNE
+2 hours to BOXLIGHTER
Or, better, if every outpost would have an OTC (Outpost Travel Card), and the standard OC, too. Om the OTC every other outpost's travel bonuses will be shown. I mean:
+2 hours to WALLACE
+X hours to X
-Y hours to B
+U hours to DEJONGH
...and so on.

radioactivity wrote:Trippy!

In any case - very cool man! Clearly you put a significant amount of effort into this. Well done!

Bangerz was also making a board game - seems to be a theme with people drawn to Subterfuge.

Have we ever seen bangers version? Or any other varieties out there??? The first time I ever saw this topic I was obsessing of making an functioning yet simplified Subterfuge game and I'd love to see their suggestions on how to make it work. From the link I saw at the end, (forgot his name) he did great creating a game, I just know that I want much more similarities to the game I love - Subterfuge. He took a very different approach to recreating it which was very interesting. I can't post my pictures from my phone as I'm not tech savvy, but I feel I've came up with a good basis for the actual game with main highlights: -Specialists -Economy management -Radar -The indecisiveness! -The Clock! -The Lies!

Subterfuge is extremely complex though and I think Noel said it before, making this into a board game would require humans doing the calculating...a huge drawback, but I believe it can be simplified to an ok medium if you have determined players.

I kept basically everything from the game but attempted to make it as simple as I could.

Below is my write out:

SUBTERFUGE BOARD GAME
My idea for a hugely condensed version of Subterfuge on a board game. This is an ARMY version.
THE BOARD:
Colored Tokens with 1-10 on them represent your "Armies". (This allows 1.A Clean Board & 2.Concealing your forces.)
Your Sub Count is kept track of with RISK units for each Army. (These remain off the board at all times.)
Your Specialists are kept track of with Colored Tokens with an abreviated name with your offboard RISK armies.
Turns are clockwise and once everyone takes their turn (Moving armies, attacking, reinforcing, etc.) this ends a "ROUND". There are 8 labeled rounds but these merely markers for when REINFORCEMENTS such as troops and Specialists are hired.
GAMEPLAY:
-"Radar" or "Fog of War" is still applicable. If an opposing army is within your "Radar" you can have them reveal that entire army.
-Stations: Factories, Generators and Mines can all be built. Generators & Factories cost 2U, mines start cost is 3U with +3 increase for each additional. All bases start as Factories. Mines cannot be undone. Each mine earns you 1 Victory Point (VP) per 8 rounds you hold a mine, each extra mine speeds up that process. Each player has a mine tracker chart that goes from 1-8 keeping count of their Mine production. First to 5VP's wins. Each round a player Factories produce 2units on every 4th and 8th round. Generators add 5u space (Players start with 10u space default.)
-Gifting is the same. To turn an army into a gift, place the Gift coin with the off-board army. Gifting can only be done on your turn.
-Specialists (SP): There is only one of every SP available to each player. Some can be upgraded which allows the base unit to return to the random selection pile. 3 SP's are still drawn at random. 1 SP is produced every 8th round.
-Communication: Private messages aka "Telegrams" are through texts via phone or an app.
GETTING STARTED:
Players start with 4u, Queen & 1base. On Round 4 and 8 reinforcements and shields are added. On round 8 a specialist is hired.
BIGGEST INCONVENIENCES:
Army Concealment: A player must place a small divider that hides their army count from other players.
Army Management: Moving, attacking, math, mining, reinforcing, unit capacity.

I don't think recreating subterfuge into a board game would be fun if it's all numbers.

It might be more successful if it captures the "spirit" of subterfuge.

For example, here are Some abstract thoughts and ideas:

Ditch a board/map and just Use cards.

Players on their turn draw three cards from the "specialists deck" and discard one.

"outposts" are cards which are won.

When you take an outpost card, you draw a type card which allocates whether it's a generator or factory.

These might be placed behind a small screen each player has where their queen lies.

Have a mechanism where a player must reveal a hidden specialist to another player. That player could write down what it is (or isn't) to share it with another player... (needs a bluff mechanism to be subterfuge)

Drillers could be generic tokens given each turn depending on the number of factories a player has. In an "attack" you and your enemy hold a number of tokens (and specialist?) in a closed fist, then reveal them at the same time.
Whoever has the most wins, but only keeps the difference. (Similar mechanism to Sons of Anarchy board game)
Of course you want to win but not use all your tokens, because if you lose LOTS of tokens you become an easy target for other players.

Spend n drillers to turn an outpost into a mine. First to three mines wins.

Lastly it wouldn't be subterfuge without gifting. Maybe place driller or specialist card face down in front or an ally, you can say it's a gift. But maybe it's a specialist card that says "gift" or "betray".

The specialist abilities would need to refined. Perhaps one specialist per outpost you own or use them like a deck builder. A hypothetical combat may be attacking players place a specialist face down each. A king might make drillers more powerful. But a sentry rather than a complicated 5% x 5% x 5% be you kill 15% of drillers or 10% of other player has a speed specialist. Or a security chief increases shield just in that combat. The key is Simplified rules. If we keep all the beautiful complexity from the mobile app, this game will be a slow maths game.


These are some thoughts which highlight components of subterfuge that we love (bring back stacked kings :p) but without a huge tedious map or lots of maths. If you remove the map and distances, and just focus on the core of the game: combat, specialists, and diplomacy (alliances/betrayal) ... the spirit of subterfuge is buried there.

Actually most of what you said is captured in the 1981 board game Diplomacy (which has defined pretty much all diplomacy based pc games and should have been at least an indirect inspiration for Subterfuge).

Anyways, the game run in rounds, but sets them apart by at least a few hours so that players have multiple opportunities to chat in-between.

The game also has something really similar to gifting, where you can use your pieces to support someone else's move, or the opposite side's moves, or try to attack on your own.

If any of you are still interested in Subterfuge based boardgames, this classic is definitely worth checking out. (There are probably even some game forums left out there playing this game)

high commander jay wrote:Actually most of what you said is captured in the 1981 board game Diplomacy (which has defined pretty much all diplomacy based pc games and should have been at least an indirect inspiration for Subterfuge).

Anyways, the game run in rounds, but sets them apart by at least a few hours so that players have multiple opportunities to chat in-between.

The game also has something really similar to gifting, where you can use your pieces to support someone else's move, or the opposite side's moves, or try to attack on your own.

If any of you are still interested in Subterfuge based boardgames, this classic is definitely worth checking out. (There are probably even some game forums left out there playing this game)

I was going to say the same thing - there are a lot of games (board and video) that have come out inspired by Diplomacy. But Diplomacy is the original "negotiate, set orders, backstab your allies" and there are a bunch of sites you can play it on. There are plenty of modern board games inspired by this too. There are also a lot of games that are more pure negotiation and backstabbing as well.