It's on my phone. It's 2d.

coltspaesano wrote:As I can agree to your reasoning, I must also interject. The map of the world does not look distorted to an ignorant onlooker, it is only after seeing the actual planet and understanding its shape that we can judge the distortion levels of our maps. We do not know the shape of the Subterfuge planet, hell we don't even know the distances between outposts, or the size of the map.

But if an ignorant onlooker were controlling battles of earth from its map, he would notice that a the whole top of our map is the same place. We dont notice rhat distortion in subterfuge.

There's no distortion here because it's just a 2D map that happens to join together to 'make' it a torus.

blobbydude wrote:There's no distortion here because it's just a 2D map that happens to join together to 'make' it a torus.

The only way it could do that is if it joined together in the shape of an infinitely thin torus that is a ring made from a piece of paper folded in half.

whos sayin wrote:

blobbydude wrote:There's no distortion here because it's just a 2D map that happens to join together to 'make' it a torus.

The only way it could do that is if it joined together in the shape of an infinitely thin torus that is a ring made from a piece of paper folded in half.

Yeah, because it's not a real torus. Think about it like this: map out all the outposts onto a rectangle. Easy enough because that's what you see on the phone. Except, you want the outposts at the bottom of the rectangle to connect with the ones on the top. In the real world, you have to roll the paper into a cylinder, but in the phone you can just stitch another copy of the map onto the bottom of the first. Then you want the right side to connect to the left, so in the real world, you connect each side of the tube to each other, and make a torus. On the phone, you make the map repeat to the left and to the right.

Obviously on the physical map you curled, there's distortion, but on the phone you never needed to change any shape to get the same effect, so there's no distortion. It's not that the phone is displaying a map of a torus, it's that the way the map is connected that makes it theoretically a toroidal shape.

Please, stop this torus thing right away.
That .gif you saw in that quoted link is wrong. A torus is the shape you get by revolving an oval around an ellipsis. Folding a 2D sheet into a cylinder and then joining that cylinder's ends does NOT give you a torus. You'd be "crunching" the inner side, if you want.
--> ergo, there is distortion involved
--> ergo, it's like projecting a sphere onto a 2D plane : you can only do it with distortion.

Point is, no matter what the 3D subterfuge map is, you CAN project it onto a 2D plane. The outposts are not evenly distributed on the original map, they end up being so on the projected surface.

radioactivity wrote:It's on my phone. It's 2d.

Radioactivity wins and closes the discussion.

benzedreene wrote:

radioactivity wrote:It's on my phone. It's 2d.

Radioactivity wins and closes the discussion.

As with most things forum-related, I emerge victorious! Seven thumbs up!

Okay, I'm feeling a bit argumentative and have some free time, so here goes nothing.

First off, that gif is an excellent demonstration of a Two dimensonal torus "A second definition for n-tori relates to dimensionality. In one dimension, a line bends into circle, giving the 1-torus. In two dimensions, a rectangle wraps to a usual torus, also called the 2-torus. In three dimensions, the cube wraps to form a 3-manifold, or 3-torus." By torus I don't mean a three dimensional torus, but rather a two dimensional surface. The map itself is obviously not a 3D torus, but rather a flat plane that connects to make a surface that behaves like a torus. This isn't controversial, it's well established topology.

It can't be any flat shape, like a rectangle, because rectangles don't loop over themselves like the subterfuge map does. Again, there isn't distortion because it's not a two dimensional projection of a three dimensional torus, its simply a two dimensional torus. Here are three explanations of how this same principle applies to another toroidal game, the classic Asteroids.

Hopefully this fully explains the idea of a torus and why subterfuge is most definitely not a rectangle.

radioactivity wrote:

benzedreene wrote:

radioactivity wrote:It's on my phone. It's 2d.

Radioactivity wins and closes the discussion.

As with most things forum-related, I emerge victorious! Seven thumbs up!

Heh, either way Radio, you're right.

benzedreene wrote:"G-d is dead." Nietzsche, 1882
"Nietzsche is dead." G-d, 1900

I like you.