Niverio's List to Balance All Specialists (Feedback Please)

Strategy, feedback, or anything SUBTERFUGE-related

  • So here is what I would do:

    General change: Each global specialist can only be hired once.
    Admirals: no change
    Assassins: no change
    Diplomat: keeps the old effect + Reduces the combat priority of each specialist in his range by 1. (Can’t drop it below 2)
    Double Agent: no change
    Engineer: (keeps the old effects) Repairs drills caused by global effect. (for flavor: Can restore the shield at an outpost destroyed by the Infiltrator’s ability) Local: Negates the Saboteur’s ability.
    Foreman: No change
    General: no change
    Helmsman: No change
    Hypnotist: no change
    Infiltrator: old effect + The Infiltrator can choose to damage the shield charge permanently, destroying its ability to regenerate. (This means that if the infiltrator can drain shields by arriving at the enemy outpost first and the player chooses to use the infiltrators ability, the shield of that outpost will remain at 0 for the rest of the game, even when the outpost is controlled by the owner of the infiltrator himself)
    Inspector: no change
    Intelligence Officer: no change
    King: no change
    Lieutenant: Moves at 1.5 speed. Converts 5 drillers to your side when battling. Combat Priority 7
    Martyr: no change
    Minister of Energy: no change
    Navigator: old effect + can only reroute once per 8 hours.
    Pirate: old effect + (due to navigator nerf) can target another sub without having to return to home directly, if the pirate carrying sub wins the battle against a targeted sub.
    Princess: no change
    Queen: no change
    Revered Elder: old effect + negates global effects within her effect radius. Effect radius is fixed and is equal to standard sonar range.
    Saboteur: (You get only one of it) The Saboteur damages the enemy sub. An enemy sub damaged this way must reroute to its own closest outpost. The damaged sub moves at 0.5 speed. If the sub had a speed specialist on it, it moves at normal 1.0 speed instead.
    Security Chief: old effect(Local included) + Local: Security Chief’s outpost’s shield charge regenerates at double rate.(This is to ensure that if you buff your home outpost with queen and security chief, it would stay at top shields, but if you go King, it would still drop to 0 with a tinkerer. Very slight buff)
    Sentry: no change:
    Smuggler: Moves with 2.5 speed instead of 3.
    Thief: old effect + If the Thief attacks a Mine and successfully captures it, you gain the amount of Neptunium lost by the defender. (For example if you capture a mine when your enemy had 100 Np, your Neptunium increases by 20, near the loss of your opponent’s 20.) Combat Priority 4
    Tinkerer: no change
    Tycoon: Factories produce drillers at every 6.0 hours instead of 8. Local stays the same.
    War Hero: Destroys (20 * the speed factor of the sub) when battling. If he is staying at an outpost, War Hero destroys 20 drills + 1 driller for every 3 shield charge the outpost has. Combat Priority 7. (so an attack sub with a Helmsman lets War Hero kill 40 drills, 30 with General / Lt., and 50 with Smuggler (if defending)

    This list has been made by me to balance all both good and bad specs. I feel like I found a good way to let all specialists feel unique, and I would appreciate all feedback about it!
    Last edited by niverio on Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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    niverio
     
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  • Incredible. Well done, Niv. Though I do not like the smug and nav nerfs. This will push more people to promote to admiral/tycoon, which is sort of the main thing that people have been complaining about. Not that people need it, since the nav and smug are already the best specs, but let's not give them more of a reason to flood the game with tycoons and admirals.

    Love the War Hero. Infiltrator text is confusing, may be a tad complex for the little dude. Same for the sabo. Thief becomes a really really fun and unique specialist...
    dane69
     
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  • Well smuggler nerf could be removed. It is one which is kind of test phase. however, navigator needs this kind of thing. It is way too strong, with or without promotions.
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    niverio
     
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  • niverio wrote:So here is what I would do:

    General change: Each global specialist can only be hired once.
    That ruins stacking, which is a fun feature anyone can do. It's the specs that need changing, not the hires.
    Admirals: no change
    Assassins: no change
    Diplomat: keeps the old effect + Reduces the combat priority of each specialist in his range by 1. (Can’t drop it below 2) This breaks the combat priority system. It means you could get two specs with combat priority X, which would cause glitches. It's a nice idea on paper, but in practice it wouldn't work.
    Double Agent: no change
    Engineer: (keeps the old effects) Repairs drills caused by global effect. (for flavor: Can restore the shield at an outpost destroyed by the Infiltrator’s ability) Local: Negates the Saboteur’s ability. Please explain what you're on about here, as I don't understand.
    Foreman: No change
    General: no change
    Helmsman: No change
    Hypnotist: no change
    Infiltrator: old effect + The Infiltrator can choose to damage the shield charge permanently, destroying its ability to regenerate. (This means that if the infiltrator can drain shields by arriving at the enemy outpost first and the player chooses to use the infiltrators ability, the shield of that outpost will remain at 0 for the rest of the game, even when the outpost is controlled by the owner of the infiltrator himself) So you could decide with another option. Interesting.
    Inspector: no change
    Intelligence Officer: no change
    King: no change How could you, Niv...
    Lieutenant: Moves at 1.5 speed. Converts 5 drillers to your side when battling. Combat Priority 7 So it's basically Thief v2. Also, due to 5 drillers it's still underpowered. Maybe 15 drillers would be better.
    Martyr: no change
    Minister of Energy: no change
    Navigator: old effect + can only reroute once per 8 hours. Would anyone want to reroute more?
    Pirate: old effect + (due to navigator nerf) can target another sub without having to return to home directly, if the pirate carrying sub wins the battle against a targeted sub. I like this a lot. So when it wins, then what? It just sits there?
    Princess: no change
    Queen: no change
    Revered Elder: old effect + negates global effects within her effect radius. Effect radius is fixed and is equal to standard sonar range. Intresting concept.
    Saboteur: (You get only one of it) The Saboteur damages the enemy sub. An enemy sub damaged this way must reroute to its own closest outpost. The damaged sub moves at 0.5 speed. If the sub had a speed specialist on it, it moves at normal 1.0 speed instead. But what if it had a smuggler, or a lit./general/affected by admiral.
    Security Chief: old effect(Local included) + Local: Security Chief’s outpost’s shield charge regenerates at double rate.(This is to ensure that if you buff your home outpost with queen and security chief, it would stay at top shields, but if you go King, it would still drop to 0 with a tinkerer. Very slight buff)
    Sentry: no change:
    Smuggler: Moves with 2.5 speed instead of 3. That just complicates maths. But yeah, Smuggler needs a nerf.
    Thief: old effect + If the Thief attacks a Mine and successfully captures it, you gain the amount of Neptunium lost by the defender. (For example if you capture a mine when your enemy had 100 Np, your Neptunium increases by 20, near the loss of your opponent’s 20.) Combat Priority 4
    Tinkerer: no change
    Tycoon: Factories produce drillers at every 6.0 hours instead of 8. Local stays the same. YOU CAN'T STACK? OUTRAGEOUS! Ok, maybe I shouldn't get so mad. But seriously, stacking is a big part of the game (in my opinion)
    War Hero: Destroys (20 * the speed factor of the sub) when battling. If he is staying at an outpost, War Hero destroys 20 drills + 1 driller for every 3 shield charge the outpost has. Combat Priority 7. (so an attack sub with a Helmsman lets War Hero kill 40 drills, 30 with General / Lt., and 50 with Smuggler (if defending)

    This list has been made by me to balance all both good and bad specs. I feel like I found a good way to let all specialists feel unique, and I would appreciate all feedback about it!
    Baa.
    bleatingsheep39
     
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  • Very interesting proposals here, especially by playing with all these game parameters.
    My only comment :
    Smuggler: Moves with 2.5 speed instead of 3.

    Naah.
    First of all, it makes Helmsman an even better alternative to Smuggler than it already is.
    And secondly, deciding when to promote a Spec with the pros and cons in the balance, is a great part of the game. So the more different the Spec and its promoted version are, the better ! I'd actually like other Promotions to put even more things in the balance 8-)

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    benzedreene
     
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  • The theif while interesting, seems awful. That can net you way too much neptunium, I like the theif as is. Smuggler is fine as is too. The main thing I notice about this is it just adding more stuff to some bad ones and limiting the good ones. While it might sound good in theory, in practice it seems a little off. You can't just change things willynilly and add and take away effects. There are some good ideas in there(the thing with the diplo is at least unique) but I don't think most would work in practice.
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    aclonicy
     
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  • aclonicy wrote:The theif while interesting, seems awful. That can net you way too much neptunium, I like the theif as is. Smuggler is fine as is too. The main thing I notice about this is it just adding more stuff to some bad ones and limiting the good ones. While it might sound good in theory, in practice it seems a little off. You can't just change things willynilly and add and take away effects. There are some good ideas in there(the thing with the diplo is at least unique) but I don't think most would work in practice.

    Aclo, when was the last time you hired a thief? You say that what I am doing is adding to the bad and taking from the good. Yes, indeed, that's what balancing is. I believe that if you have Saboteur Thief Navigator, you shouldn't be always taking Nav. That indicates an imbalance, and I tried to remove that here. Because frankly, you guys might like some specs better than others, but they never should be "must take/never take". That conception was the thing I was trying to get rid of. Each spec is unique in its own way, and the way the things have been around here was always about smuggler hypno navigator. There are 28 specialists in the game. Not 10.
    And you say that you can't add or take things willynilly. Yes you can. Most games do it at each 2 weeks- 1 month period. Those changes keep the game healthy.
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    niverio
     
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  • The smuggler and nav don't needs nerfs, because as Dane said, them being good is what prevents getting admirals and tycoons at the moment. You removing global stacking would solve our problem, I hope. Everything else seems fine niv.


    Ps sheep. I disagree with all your points.
    Simply put, my job here is to keep the forums afloat through any means necessary
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    nojo34
     
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  • am i the only one who actually hires and likes the thief?

    okay...
    Zyxe? Now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time.
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    zyxe
     
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  • Why does the Lieutenant steal 5 instead of just destroying 10? The only thing it really accomplishes is making it better against losing to an engineer and worse against someone who has more kings than you.
    Zyxe? Now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time.
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