[PLEASE READ] Poll about game balance

Strategy, feedback, or anything SUBTERFUGE-related

What specs need change

King (Nerf)
28
18%
Admiral (Nerf)
9
6%
Tycoon (Nerf)
4
3%
Engineer (Buff)
6
4%
War Hero (Buff)
22
14%
Diplomat (Buff)
10
6%
Elder (Buff)
18
12%
Infiltrator (Buff)
34
22%
Thief (Buff)
18
12%
Other (Please explain)
6
4%
 
Total votes : 155


  • carter j burke wrote:4) custom server creation; allow restrictions on available specs in a game. Eg. Server creator can disable the ability to hire kings or admirals or whatever. This mixes things up and forces players to utilise new strategies... and shuts up the "omg king is OP" complainers. :p Who doesn't want to play a game where the only hires are infiltrators! Yeah!


    This is going to be a hefty update, gonna be too much for the devs, they won't be willing to do it. Love the idea, but I doubt it will happen
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  • dane69 wrote:I gotta agree with some of what tk is saying here. I love these discussions, though if Ron and Noel don't legitimately put some effort and thought of their own into this, then the game could get really really outta hand..

    The immense amount of work that they put into this game speaks for itself. We've just managed (as a community) to figure out that certain specs, when stacked, can create an easier path to victory than other spec combinations. Probably the tenth time I have said this, but: "I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT I AM SMART/NOR QUALIFIED ENOUGH TO TELL THE DEVS WHAT NEEDS TO BE REWORKED AND WHAT DOES NOT." It is not like they just made up some numbers and launched the game. There were many many many MANY spec and rule adjustments that the beta community worked out. Scroll back enough on the forums and you will see. I would LOVE to see the devs revisit this, BUT only if they seriously take some time and look at shit. Hear our concerns, but do not necessarily listen to all of our proposed solutions. They are v smart dudez and can figure this out if they devoted some time to it.

    Sidenote—I love the idea of getting an elim bonus (even though I am already super satisfied when I am able to eliminate a player—no easy feat nowadays.)


    My biggest issue with the game is that It's really really close to being really really good. And it's unfortunate that the lack of financial success delayed any balance update. Because Lots of games need to be tweaked.

    But they will absolutely figure it out if they put forth a moderate effort. But a very vague community poll on what specs need to be changed is the absolute worst idea for a balance change.
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  • coltspaesano wrote:
    carter j burke wrote:4) custom server creation; allow restrictions on available specs in a game. Eg. Server creator can disable the ability to hire kings or admirals or whatever. This mixes things up and forces players to utilise new strategies... and shuts up the "omg king is OP" complainers. :p Who doesn't want to play a game where the only hires are infiltrators! Yeah!


    This is going to be a hefty update, gonna be too much for the devs, they won't be willing to do it. Love the idea, but I doubt it will happen


    Agreed, though I think this would be an ideal moneymaking update - put it all behind L3 and let game creators customize every feature of the game: speed (x.5, x1, x1.5, x2), specialists (no promotions, only promotable specs, only martyrs navs and pirates, etc), specialist multipliers (martyr blast radius is now 50% of outpost range, thief now steals 40%), starting stats (everyone starts with double drillers, or double outposts on a bigger map, base electricity is now 250, generators generate 100 instead of 50, factories produce x.5, x1, x1.5, x2).

    There are so many options and I think the devs balanced them all really well - but I think there's a market for letting people customize exactly how their game will play. If you don't want kings, or stacking, or just want to play around with tons of giant explosive martyrs flying around everywhere :D , you should be able to do that...for an additional fee. But realistically, this is a much bigger effort and with the game audience rather small right now, not enough people would buy to make it worthwhile.
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  • nojo34 wrote:Tk, and everyone who has an issue with stacking global (only global) specs diminishing returns is our savior. We do not change the way the kings abiities work, simply each additional king you would have would be less effective than the last. Leave it to the devs for specific numbers, this is just a concept. However, I feel like only the king should be effected as tycoons and admirals force you to give up two of the best unpromoted specs. The smuggler and navigator respectively. I feel this is a middle ground between a full on nerf (what I was pushing for) and a full global rework (TK's policy).


    I'm not anti global stacking though. I think it's an extremely important aspect of the game, but in certain ways it was implemented have showed to be incorrect.

    The problem with a 'middle ground fix' is that it won't fix the problem, and has the potential to make things much worse.
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  • topkilla wrote:
    I'm not anti global stacking though. I think it's an extremely important aspect of the game, but in certain ways it was implemented have showed to be incorrect.

    The problem with a 'middle ground fix' is that it won't fix the problem, and has the potential to make things much worse.

    I'm not putting words in your mouth that you hate global effects, it just seems like you are pushing for a rework.

    You also mentioned devs involvement, I've been pushing for them to read what we are saying, and to contribute.
    Simply put, my job here is to keep the forums afloat through any means necessary
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  • rracer2 wrote:
    coltspaesano wrote:
    carter j burke wrote:4) custom server creation; allow restrictions on available specs in a game. Eg. Server creator can disable the ability to hire kings or admirals or whatever. This mixes things up and forces players to utilise new strategies... and shuts up the "omg king is OP" complainers. :p Who doesn't want to play a game where the only hires are infiltrators! Yeah!


    This is going to be a hefty update, gonna be too much for the devs, they won't be willing to do it. Love the idea, but I doubt it will happen


    Agreed, though I think this would be an ideal moneymaking update - put it all behind L3 and let game creators customize every feature of the game: speed (x.5, x1, x1.5, x2), specialists (no promotions, only promotable specs, only martyrs navs and pirates, etc), specialist multipliers (martyr blast radius is now 50% of outpost range, thief now steals 40%), starting stats (everyone starts with double drillers, or double outposts on a bigger map, base electricity is now 250, generators generate 100 instead of 50, factories produce x.5, x1, x1.5, x2).

    There are so many options and I think the devs balanced them all really well - but I think there's a market for letting people customize exactly how their game will play. If you don't want kings, or stacking, or just want to play around with tons of giant explosive martyrs flying around everywhere :D , you should be able to do that...for an additional fee. But realistically, this is a much bigger effort and with the game audience rather small right now, not enough people would buy to make it worthwhile.



    Oh god, I didnt know I wanted this before you said it.... Please... I want this.... I'll pay what ever you want, just take my wallet.
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  • Runewarden, I believe you mean...

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  • Subterfuge needs more "rock, paper, scissors" specialist mechanics, not just: spam assassins to counter all. For instance, the king is probably the specialist that people complain the most about, and in a way I agree with them. I suggest that the kings abilities stay the same, but there is either a larger downside or a strong weakness to a specialist or a combination of specialists, or even a certain strategy that forces the player to think strategically.
    jacob_exe
     
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  • The Thief
    Though the thief is pretty useful, it could use a buff, especially compared to other offensive specialists. I do not think the percentage for the thief should be increased, as this would be very powerful with large numbers of troops.
    Instead, I suggest having another attribute that is fitting for a theif, or another specialist it can be promoted to. I suggest it have an increased speed attribute (I'm not sure how much, maybe 75%, or even 25%), that would allow it to move a bit faster.
    The other idea I have is to have a class the theif can be promoted too. I am not suggesting both a promotable class and the speed increase, just one or the other, in my own opinion with the promoteable class being a larger buff than the speed increase. I have two ideas as to what it could to promote to.

    1. Kidnapper (combat priority 4): In sub to sub combat, the kidnapper will steal one random non-queen specialist from the other sub and take it prisoner. No matter the result of this combat, prisoner will be sent in a separate sub back your nearest outpost in the same manner as normal prisoners from sub to sub combat.

    2. Hacker (combat priority 7, after assassin): Upon reaching an enemy base, the hacker will immediately disable shields and lock their controls for 24 hours, during which they can not be enabled. After 24 hours, the shields will enable, but will contain the same charge level as before they were disabled by the hacker.

    Note: The hacker will get taken prisoner as soon as they reach the enemy base, unless the base is captured.
    Note 2: I'm not sure if 24 hours is too long or not, maybe 18 would be better or even 12.
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  • jellyfishcoder wrote:
    1. Kidnapper (combat priority 4): In sub to sub combat, the kidnapper will steal one random non-queen specialist from the other sub and take it prisoner. No matter the result of this combat, prisoner will be sent in a separate sub back your nearest outpost in the same manner as normal prisoners from sub to sub combat.


    I think it should be called the rapist and it only gets female specialists and they are permanently scarred by losing part of their power.
    Last edited by whos sayin on Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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