[PLEASE READ] Poll about game balance

Strategy, feedback, or anything SUBTERFUGE-related

What specs need change

King (Nerf)
28
18%
Admiral (Nerf)
9
6%
Tycoon (Nerf)
4
3%
Engineer (Buff)
6
4%
War Hero (Buff)
22
14%
Diplomat (Buff)
10
6%
Elder (Buff)
18
12%
Infiltrator (Buff)
34
22%
Thief (Buff)
18
12%
Other (Please explain)
6
4%
 
Total votes : 155


  • Ron wants to know what specs/gameplay issues need to be changed. This poll is simply saying which specs need to be changed, but not why. Please talk in the other game balance threads to discus that. This is just to say what needs changing. Vote for as many as you'd like.

    I will be relaying this info to Ron when it seems we have a large amount of votes. (I set it remove from the global list in two days, i just want to make sure everyone reads it)
    Simply put, my job here is to keep the forums afloat through any means necessary
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    nojo34
     
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  • wow most of the people voted same
    fox-alpha-one
     
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  • This is a terrible idea.
    Supreme Leader; TopKilla
    topkilla
     
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  • Please please please tell Ron and Noel they must absolutely be the first AND final say on ALL CHANGES. - They can listen to fully thought ideas, but please tell them to ignore the individually cries to change x specialist. The specialists are a minor issue compared to the a few simple game rule changes.

    ---

    People are incredible dumb. Like super super dumb. It’s easy to suggest changes, but a lot harder to write up a comprehensive plan of action. And I’ve seen way too many games get ruined due to the popular vote of total noObs to not point this out. And even though it’s a simple truth that many here won’t like, I have to do it for Subterfuge, because there’s proof reflected in the poll. - That being that only 2 people other than myself have enough foresight to see that a nerf to the King will just instantly roll over to the Admiral/Tycoon with no other changes. - (Edit: It's also funny 11 other people than me voted to buff the Infiltrator... Which would be nice, but isn't a major issue regarding balance.)

    Balance updates voted upon by a group of members don’t work. The more opinions you have, the worse off you end up. Because the more opinions you listen too, the greater the odds that the person you’re listening too has no idea what it is they are talking about, and you’re much more inclined to make lots of bad changes that make the game worse off to please the players than actually fixing the initial problem in the first place.


    The real issues with the game are:

    • Specialist Stacking Breaking Core Gameplay mechanics (Power; King, Speed; Admiral, Production; King; Tycoon, Vision; Intel Officer; Princess)
    • The Lack of Benefit to Waging War (Submission by survival: No benefit to eliminating players, players gifting specs in exchange for survival, the difficulty required to eliminate players)
    • Making all the specialists relatively the same usefulness (Too usability of specs is way to diverse. Get a bad run of hires and you're probability of winning is extremely lowered

    Those are the issues with the game. Changing a few individual specialists here and there is completely irrelevant.
    Supreme Leader; TopKilla
    topkilla
     
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  • Meh, get over it.
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    I need no other plea,
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    aclonicy
     
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  • I gotta agree with some of what tk is saying here. I love these discussions, though if Ron and Noel don't legitimately put some effort and thought of their own into this, then the game could get really really outta hand..

    The immense amount of work that they put into this game speaks for itself. We've just managed (as a community) to figure out that certain specs, when stacked, can create an easier path to victory than other spec combinations. Probably the tenth time I have said this, but: "I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT I AM SMART/NOR QUALIFIED ENOUGH TO TELL THE DEVS WHAT NEEDS TO BE REWORKED AND WHAT DOES NOT." It is not like they just made up some numbers and launched the game. There were many many many MANY spec and rule adjustments that the beta community worked out. Scroll back enough on the forums and you will see. I would LOVE to see the devs revisit this, BUT only if they seriously take some time and look at shit. Hear our concerns, but do not necessarily listen to all of our proposed solutions. They are v smart dudez and can figure this out if they devoted some time to it.

    Sidenote—I love the idea of getting an elim bonus (even though I am already super satisfied when I am able to eliminate a player—no easy feat nowadays.)
    dane69
     
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  • I still think funding in domination would be nice. Maybe just if you have 20% of needed outposts to win above someone else, you can fund them.

    But, like Dane said,
    dane69 wrote:I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT I AM SMART/NOR QUALIFIED ENOUGH TO TELL THE DEVS WHAT NEEDS TO BE REWORKED AND WHAT DOES NOT.

    Devs know what's up, and they did everything for a reason
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    mathwhiz9
     
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  • Tk, and everyone who has an issue with stacking global (only global) specs diminishing returns is our savior. We do not change the way the kings abiities work, simply each additional king you would have would be less effective than the last. Leave it to the devs for specific numbers, this is just a concept. However, I feel like only the king should be effected as tycoons and admirals force you to give up two of the best unpromoted specs. The smuggler and navigator respectively. I feel this is a middle ground between a full on nerf (what I was pushing for) and a full global rework (TK's policy).
    Simply put, my job here is to keep the forums afloat through any means necessary
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    nojo34
     
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  • the engineers global needs a slight buff possibly to 33%. local is fine.
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    whos sayin
     
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  • Realistically, people bitch about kings being OP because they don't know how to counter them. And nobody can agree what needs changing. Here is my proposal:

    1) forget balancing specs. Dev's did a good job.

    2) Fix anonymous mode so it's truly anonymous. Reduce the chance of pre-game alliances and IRL friends from hijacking one server.

    3) Allow purchasing medals for players in anonymous. Keep the money rolling in! :)

    4) custom server creation; allow restrictions on available specs in a game. Eg. Server creator can disable the ability to hire kings or admirals or whatever. This mixes things up and forces players to utilise new strategies... and shuts up the "omg king is OP" complainers. :p Who doesn't want to play a game where the only hires are infiltrators! Yeah!



    But if Ron is going to nerf the king - because face it, 90% of complaints are about kings - make it 1/4 instead of 1/3. Stacking is one of the most exciting aspects of subterfuge.

    Please make the infiltrator great again. :p
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    carter j burke
     
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