Specialists don't need to be balanced

Strategy, feedback, or anything SUBTERFUGE-related
Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:14 pm

  • They really don't. If every specialist was balanced and equally powerful, and assuming the players are at the same skill and intelligence, this game would likely last indefinitely - at least for domination. For a regular mining game it would come down to who built the most mines first and just defending them. It's the power of specialists that can break stalemates and resolve games that arguably already last too long.

    Added balancing would make alliances and betrayal more important, a pro or a con depending on subjective opinion. I personally think it's a con because most people I've met in this game are not very savory. Alliances won't guarantee resolutions either. More balanced specialists will probably also cause more people to use multiple accounts, and we don't need that.
    jerkmymeat
     
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:53 pm


  • I agree with you totally.
    Baa.
    bleatingsheep39
     
    Posts: 809
    Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:11 pm
    Location: In the pasture.


  • No, there's plenty in the game to add in some randomness. The specs aren't directly chosen, you get a random selection of them, and part of the game is using the specialists you get effectively. Anybody could win with Hypnos and Navigators, it's the winner with assassins and diplomats that makes it interesting.

    Another factor is that people are better at different things, and that affects play. You can't assume that everybody is equally good at the game. Some people have rousing diplomacy, while others can rely on quick strategy. Combine this with the random distribution of outposts and suddenly different skills are important in different areas. Sometimes being friendly to those around is better than stacking kings.

    But not usually, and that's the problem. Certain specialists are either too powerful or don't interact properly, and it throws off the balance. The reason people always choose some specs over the other is becasue they are just more effective. And some barely do anything (lookin' at you infiltrator). We don't want a balance update that makes everything's flat and bland, we want one that allows other qualities and abilities to come forward.
    Can you not? Like really, don't.
    User avatar
    blobbydont
     
    Posts: 40
    Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:05 am
    Location: Don't.


  • blobbydont wrote:No, there's plenty in the game to add in some randomness. The specs aren't directly chosen, you get a random selection of them, and part of the game is using the specialists you get effectively. Anybody could win with Hypnos and Navigators, it's the winner with assassins and diplomats that makes it interesting.

    Another factor is that people are better at different things, and that affects play. You can't assume that everybody is equally good at the game. Some people have rousing diplomacy, while others can rely on quick strategy. Combine this with the random distribution of outposts and suddenly different skills are important in different areas. Sometimes being friendly to those around is better than stacking kings.

    But not usually, and that's the problem. Certain specialists are either too powerful or don't interact properly, and it throws off the balance. The reason people always choose some specs over the other is becasue they are just more effective. And some barely do anything (lookin' at you infiltrator). We don't want a balance update that makes everything's flat and bland, we want one that allows other qualities and abilities to come forward.


    I'm fine with boosting trashy specs like the infiltrator and war hero, but the powerful ones don't need to be nerfed. I saw something about making the tycoon make you lose driller capacity or something? That's unneeded.
    jerkmymeat
     
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:53 pm


  • Of course people have differently opinions on how to balance specs, that's almost guaranteed with as many people with different play styles as we have. I think everybody agrees that we need some form of balance, but how to get there is debated.
    Can you not? Like really, don't.
    User avatar
    blobbydont
     
    Posts: 40
    Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:05 am
    Location: Don't.


  • You are right, they don't. They just need to be fixed so that stacking them is less effective or has stacking disadvantages.
    For instance take king. He takes 20 shield away from all the other outposts except his. 2 kings take away 40 shields from other outposts. And obviously. There aren't any outposts with more than 20 shields unless you have security chief. But the kings effect of driller efficiency stack with no disadvantage unlike master of energy. Same with admiral. His global speed effect stacks, with no disadvantage, yes you lose navigator which is an excellent specialist. Same goes for tycoon, but stacking tycoon is significantly less effective as you get overloaded with drillers and everything stops producing.
    Balance of the specialists isn't necessary but, they need to be fixed so that having multiple of them is not absurdly overpowered.
    Panda is simple. He sees bubbles, he pops them. He doesn't see bubbles he takes naps.
    User avatar
    bluepanda
     
    Posts: 16
    Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:07 am
    Location: Inside an indestructible bubble in the depth.


  • bluepanda wrote:You are right, they don't. They just need to be fixed so that stacking them is less effective or has stacking disadvantages.
    For instance take king. He takes 20 shield away from all the other outposts except his. 2 kings take away 40 shields from other outposts. And obviously. There aren't any outposts with more than 20 shields unless you have security chief. But the kings effect of driller efficiency stack with no disadvantage unlike master of energy. Same with admiral. His global speed effect stacks, with no disadvantage, yes you lose navigator which is an excellent specialist. Same goes for tycoon, but stacking tycoon is significantly less effective as you get overloaded with drillers and everything stops producing.
    Balance of the specialists isn't necessary but, they need to be fixed so that having multiple of them is not absurdly overpowered.


    You literally just said they don't need to be balanced and then talk about balancing them. Stacking is absolutely fine. Didn't get a specialist you want? Better luck next time. Stacking and late game power tripping is what makes this game fun. If a game doesn't go the way you like, turtle and wait it out or resign.
    jerkmymeat
     
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:53 pm


  • jerkmymeat wrote:You literally just said they don't need to be balanced and then talk about balancing them. Stacking is absolutely fine. Didn't get a specialist you want? Better luck next time. Stacking and late game power tripping is what makes this game fun. If a game doesn't go the way you like, turtle and wait it out or resign.

    I said they don't need to be nerfed, but the disadvantage should be able to stack like the minister of energy. Which for king does absolutely nothing.
    Panda is simple. He sees bubbles, he pops them. He doesn't see bubbles he takes naps.
    User avatar
    bluepanda
     
    Posts: 16
    Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:07 am
    Location: Inside an indestructible bubble in the depth.


  • So, in others words, he needs NERFED? Because that's exactly what you're saying.
    My faith has found a resting place,
    Not in device or creed;
    I trust the ever-living One,
    His wounds for me shall plead.
    I need no other argument,
    I need no other plea,
    It is enough that Jesus died,
    And that He died for me.
    User avatar
    aclonicy
     
    Posts: 1955
    Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:21 am


  • aclonicy wrote:So, in others words, he needs NERFED? Because that's exactly what you're saying.

    I'm saying for example, what if king didn't take away the shield, but instead took away some power. So that the player would have to do something to compensate for the loss of power by taking generators or getting minister of energy, for stats, maybe each generators give 10 less power. But king himself gives 40 power. So that there is no loss in power if you have few generators but a large loss if you have many.
    Panda is simple. He sees bubbles, he pops them. He doesn't see bubbles he takes naps.
    User avatar
    bluepanda
     
    Posts: 16
    Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:07 am
    Location: Inside an indestructible bubble in the depth.



Return to General




Information
  • Who is online
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests
cron