Subterfuge Diplomacy - Trading

Strategy, feedback, or anything SUBTERFUGE-related
Mon May 29, 2017 2:00 am

  • As a strategy/diplomacy game with a gifting feature, Subterfuge allows us to make deals with our fellow players, wether it may be paying for a truce, support for an ally, a bribe for a backstab or just pure and simple trading.

    When negotiating trade deals I noticed that there is no common basis to determine a specialist's or outpost's value. The idea of this thread is to sign each specialist and outpost a base value in drillers.
    (Of course the definite values can differ depending on the state of game, but let's just assume your average, mid-game situation: A couple players were taken out, some have just hit their driller cap, some have lost a lot of drillers, everyone has a handful of hires and maybe one player already started to mine.)

    I will keep track of the average values here:

    1 factory:
    1 generator:
    1 mine:

    1 lieutenant:
    1 smuggler:
    1 sentry:
    1 hypnotist:
    1 navigator:
    1 foreman:
    1 pirate:
    1 helmsman:
    1 infiltrator:
    1 thief:
    1 martyr:
    1/2 saboteur(s):
    1/2 assassin(s):
    1 princess:

    1 king:
    1 tycoon:
    1 admiral:
    1 engineer:
    1 general:

    Please post your own list below.
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    high commander jay
     
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Mon May 29, 2017 2:50 am

  • This is interesting. I'm normally not one to make trades for specialists, so I don't know what to say here.

    The only "trade" I can think I made in recent history was trading an admiral and 5 outposts for a silver medal. I thought teal would attack me, so I made that truce with him so I could take silver. Turned out to be Aclo in the ranked anon forums game, but I still came second instead of fourth for once.
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    mathwhiz9
     
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Mon May 29, 2017 3:13 am

  • Well, I guess I'll start with my personal evaluation:

    1 factory: 70 drillers
    1 generator: 40
    1 mine: 250

    1 lieutenant: 60
    1 smuggler: 150
    1 sentry: 40
    1 hypnotist: 110
    1 navigator:120
    1 foreman: 90
    1 pirate: 50
    1 helmsman: 60
    1 infiltrator: 40
    1 thief: 40
    1 martyr: 50
    1/2 saboteur(s): 25/50
    1/2 assassin(s): 25/40
    1 princess: 30

    1 king: 180
    1 tycoon: 250
    1 admiral: 220
    1 engineer: 180
    1 general: 120
    “All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away.”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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    high commander jay
     
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Mon May 29, 2017 12:40 pm

  • Haha ok ill give my thoughts

    Drop infil and thief to 30
    Princess up to 45
    Switch engineer and general numbers
    We got ourselves an album, boys!
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    mathwhiz9
     
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Mon May 29, 2017 1:45 pm

  • Specialist value varies throughout the game.
    Sorry but this is totally bogus. Attempting this will only get people to quote it in games and get mad when they don't get such a deal. Games are mostly situational, I object to such fixed values.

    TAKE.Benzedreene
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    benzedreene
     
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Mon May 29, 2017 3:28 pm

  • I should probably clarify. The purpose of this is not to create a list of recommended trading values to be used in negotiation. That would be ridiculous.

    The situational value of any given specialist or outpost is influenced by map type, game state, win condition progress, driller to outpost ratio, specialist synergy, the players' stats and whatnot. Nobody would give away a mine for pretty much anything once the mining race started. Even drillers themselves can have different values depending on their location.

    However, while specific factors can increase or decrease the specific value of a specialist or outpost, the average will still show some of them being overall valued more by players than others. Having a sense of the abstract value one of them will generally tend towards throughout a game can be extremely useful.

    That is why this topic is less aimed at creating a trading reference than getting an impression of how players view the different specialists and how it could affect your negotiations.
    “All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away.”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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    high commander jay
     
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Tue May 30, 2017 8:09 am

  • Then just ask people to rank the specialists, or give them a 0-100 mark.
    Which has been done in numerous older threads, by the way.

    TAKE.Benzedreene
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    benzedreene
     
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Tue May 30, 2017 12:15 pm

  • That would just give you a reference for hiring, not actual trade.
    Well, apparently specialist and outpost trading is currently not as popular in the player base as I thought. Maybe we will come back to this matter at a later point.
    “All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away.”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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    high commander jay
     
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Wed May 31, 2017 12:09 am

  • 1 factory: 60
    1 generator: 50
    1 mine: 350

    1 lieutenant: 30
    1 smuggler: 120
    1 sentry: 40
    1 hypnotist: 110
    1 navigator: 30
    1 foreman: 140
    1 pirate: 65
    1 helmsman: 120
    1 infiltrator: 35
    1 thief: 80
    1 martyr: 40
    1 saboteur: 50
    1 assassin: 70
    1 princess: 110

    1 king: 165
    1 tycoon: 110
    1 admiral: 110
    1 engineer: 90
    1 general: 40
    Baa.
    bleatingsheep39
     
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Wed May 31, 2017 1:12 am

  • high commander jay wrote:That would just give you a reference for hiring, not actual trade.
    Well, apparently specialist and outpost trading is currently not as popular in the player base as I thought. Maybe we will come back to this matter at a later point.

    That's actually very good , I love the idea and it might lead to Having more deals in the game
    He was a fine player :D
    RIP rooz!

    (Im alive , just stopped playing !)
    roozbeh
     
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