SUBTERFUGE Forums

What specialists do you feel are balanced, and what specialists do you feel are too strong?


I know my first thoughts after some games, and some theory crafting numbers,

However I wanted to create a thread for others to post on this as well!


This can also be talked about by "meta" plays as well.

day 1 double mine play with 2 shield buffs, vs Day 2 1 mine, Engineer.

Having played Subterfuge for almost a year, I can say they are all very balanced. In my current game triple King is nearly unbeatable. That said, it's not foolproof. Every specials and specialist combo can be beaten, and everything can be beaten by diplomacy.

Another thing to consider is that the map is different in every game, and what your opponents do is different in every game. So one specialist could be super useful (i.e. overpowered) in one game, but kind of meh in another one. So it's very situational.

Of course, I would really dislike any examples given on a 1 sample size.


The context of the game and experience over time, is more important.

The only specialists that I see being used regularly in an "OP" manner are Pirates/Navigators together.
And even then, it's not too hard to work around, if you think it through. Nothing in this game is OP or unbalanced.

I couldn't disagree more.

Navigator is nearly a game breaker.

What are these incredible counters to Nav that you folks are referring to?

duc deval wrote:I couldn't disagree more.

Navigator is nearly a game breaker.

What are these incredible counters to Nav that you folks are referring to?

How about a pirate with more drillers?

Also it's not like pir/navs are that hard to assemble. You can easily get one of your own and rebuff your opponents'. Throw an assassin or a martyr on there if you really want to take care of it (or a double agent if you want to neutralize his/her drillers).

When I first started I was extremely wary of pir/nav combos, and felt like a badass every time I made one of my own. Now I rarely go for them and am not overly intimidated when I do see them. Strategize where/how you move your drillers to ensure that the combo stays slow and cannot effectively target your subs in transit.

duc deval wrote:Navigator is nearly a game breaker.

Agreed. What I love about the power structure of the other specialists is that they counter and complement each other. The problem with Navigator is that he is universally OP. He is just so powerful, no matter what is going on, no matter what anyone else is doing.

The ONLY scenario where this isnt the case, is if you are beaten down to 1 or 2 outposts and are looking only to defend what you have. I dont really count this as relevant, because at this point the game is basically lost anyway.

duc deval wrote:I couldn't disagree more.

Navigator is nearly a game breaker.

What are these incredible counters to Nav that you folks are referring to?

If a player puts together a Queen hunting sub, Navigator with other specialsts, that is a lot of resources put on one sub.

So you just need to make it a very costly attack if you see one coming your way. Think like the player that owns the attacking sub and try to predict where they will go, then strengthen those potential targets. To make their attack cost a lot, place assassins or martyr's at outposts and then move drillers around so that if he does attack, they can't attack again.

I'm surprised to see no mention of tycoon. Drillers are both army and currency, having one allows you to play a game of attrition against an opponent that can't match your production. Unless you cap your production very quickly, you can use the boost to make yourself a very unattractive target, and the attacker is always at a disadvantage.

Smuggler is useful, but tycoon has no drawbacks. In a game now where I am 200 drillers ahead of everyone, but I can't touch one guy who has a Tycoon because I simply can't get enough drillers there fast enough to match his production.

The only time tycoon is not useful is when you are capped, which is easily solved by using your drillers continously.