Specialists

Strategy, feedback, or anything SUBTERFUGE-related
Fri May 23, 2014 4:16 pm

  • I'm sure it will take several games to get used to all the Specialists, but the feeling I had both before and after playing this first game is that there are too many kinds. I found myself constantly looking them up.

    The other concern I have with them is that Elder seems like a god unit. I started discussing this with Ron in game after Noel killed me with one. Then I looked it up again and realized you get 2 for 1 hire! I'm fine with them nullifying the majority of the other specialists, but they should have some weakness.

    Consider the board game Stretego. The strongest piece on the board (1 or 10 depending on the version) can kill practically everything, yet is still vulnerable to attack by the Spy or by running into a bomb. Perhaps an Assassin should be able to attack an Elder, or a Guard Dog defend against him.
    Brin Caspian
     
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 9:19 am

Fri May 23, 2014 9:14 pm

  • Specialists are the bread and butter of the game. Yes, there are quite a few and there will be more (we're thinking people can buy expansions with a set of them).

    That's one of the reasons we present three and let you pick one. That's less overwhelming than being able to pick among all of them. But yes, it's kind of like playing Magic for the first time and having a bunch of cards you need to learn (hopefully not that bad).

    As for the Elder, yes he's good but not that good. He neutralizes all combat specialists, including your own. I was lucky that you had a bunch of specialist and I had a Smuggler to get there quickly.

    Incidentally, elder + smuggler is a pretty awesome combo because the smuggler combat ability (you lose) it's also neutralized :-)

    We're still early in the balancing phase, but if the elder is too strong, we have some easy ways to nerf him (get just one, or lower his combat priority--which is not something that's in this build yet).

    --Noel
    User avatar
    Noel
    Site Admin
     
    Posts: 137
    Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:43 pm

Sat May 24, 2014 5:12 am

  • I'm trying to come up with a situation where he isn't that good. Why wouldn't I want to pick him every time he is available, and plant one at every important outpost? The only time I would ever need to have him retreat is if the overall attacking ship count was higher or another elder is coming with the attack.
    Brin Caspian
     
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 9:19 am

Mon May 26, 2014 8:20 pm

  • the elder is mostly good for defense, and then only if it's the specialists that make a difference between winning and losing. I'm not sure I understand why you value him so highly. I have never chosen the elder more than once because there are always options that I find more useful. I often pass him up entirely. I would much rather have a martyr or double agent as a defensive specialist.
    User avatar
    ron
     
    Posts: 423
    Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:05 am

Tue May 27, 2014 4:04 pm

  • I repeatedly go killed by Elders. Given that he can counter all others, and that you get two of them for a single hire, I believe they are way over powered.
    Brin Caspian
     
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 9:19 am

Tue May 27, 2014 4:17 pm

  • we discussed this some more today. some specialist has to be top dog (priority 1), and of all the specialists that affect combat, the elder seems like the least harmful.

    imagine if the assassin was priority 1, or the martyr, or the double agent. had I drawn any if those you would have been much worse off.

    btw, the strategy you used at the end is what we've come to call the mega-ship. one huge sub with lots of specialists. it's a very dangerous strategy for the person using it. too many eggs in one basket. makes sense the way you used it, as a last ditch effort at the end, but the prognosis for it in most cases is not that great.
    User avatar
    ron
     
    Posts: 423
    Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:05 am

Wed May 28, 2014 5:10 am

  • Maybe that is an issue, that each specialist gets a priority, but the user doesn't know what it is. It isn't spelled out in the rules.
    Brin Caspian
     
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 9:19 am

Wed May 28, 2014 6:21 am

  • Brin Caspian wrote:Maybe that is an issue, that each specialist gets a priority, but the user doesn't know what it is. It isn't spelled out in the rules.

    Yes, that's a recent change that wasn't in this playtest build. The priority was implied by the phrasing of the description of the specialist, but I agree that it was very ambiguous. In the next build each specialist will have an explicit priority, and during combat, all specialists of the same priority apply their effects at the same time (from 1 to 5) and then driller combat happens. It should help make things a lot clearer.
    User avatar
    Noel
    Site Admin
     
    Posts: 137
    Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:43 pm



Return to General




Information
  • Who is online
  • Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 28 guests
cron