SUBTERFUGE Forums

Here is how I think about the Game Progression.
Simple version of how one could play the game:
• Make Friends
• Take as many outposts as you cheaply can
• Drill a mine
• and try to keep what you got

*Obviously this is not the formula for victory, but it is a stable strategy for the average game*

There are 4 Game Phases and here is what you could be doing during each of them:

*Note that the next Phase may vary depending on how you do in the previous*

Phase 0: (Diplomacy)

Phase 0 is Day 0. (Probably everyone knows what to do here!)
It’s the time before the game starts and if you are lucky before everyone is even in the game. Lucky in so far that you are able to plan and make bonds (maybe? ->) against the last player to join the game. ^^

Anyhow you should be looking at the map and check what it offers.

• How are your bases positioned to one another and to the other players?
Depending on your position plan what your strategy for the game should be.
o Make a pact with the player closes to you?
o Make pacts with everyone?
o Wait what everyone says or does before you decide?

The more agreements you have with your neighbors the saver you should be at the beginning of the game. Though it also has some disadvantages. You will have trouble to expand and in the end will have to betray one or get betrayed (if you want to get first place or see some action). The most important disadvantage in my mind though is that it will be BORING if you only sit there and start to mine until someone decides to attack when he noticed he will not be in the top 3 at the end of the game.

I will not go over any Diplomacy lessons here but as a TIP: do not betray your allies to often since you will see them again eventually.
After you decided who your allies should be (and if they also agree to that) you should plan your expansion. Try to get a good position in the game and your drillers to where you need them for Phase 1.
• Are there more generators but few factories? (or the other way around)
• Where should your queen be and where will you mine in the end?
• What outposts are critical for your plan?

If you have an alliance you should plan with them.
• Who gets which outpost?
• Who attacks from what direction? (if you plan on taking out someone quickly)

If you have no alliance: *this dose not mean you do not have any agreements*
• Take the outposts you can reach quicker than everyone else and try to establish your territory so you can defend it.
• Send few subs to outposts further away if you are not there first. (maybe you get lucky…if not you don’t lose much)
• Negotiate over outposts if you are not the only one who is interested.
• See what everyone dose and react to it.

So:
A good start into the game depends on how you are positioned and how everyone else interacts with you. Depending on the size of the map you will not be able to do much without Diplomacy.

TIP: If you time the orders of your drillers on Day 0 you could/should do it 10 minutes in the game. This way no one else sees what you plan to do. Be careful though if you have to race to an outpost.
Phase 1: (The hassle)

Phase 1 starts at day 1 and ends somewhere around day 3. Hopefully with you on the track of whatever you have planned to do.

This phase is all about your expansion and might be the most crucial phase of them all.

While there seems not to be much else to do on day 1 than wait for your subs to arrive at their destination you can still do something:
LOOK at what everyone else is doing and ADJUST your plans accordingly. (This is what you will be doing for the rest of the game!)

Also there is one important decision to make! You can choose your first Specialist.
You have to decide depending on your situation. HA! That is easy to say you might think so here is what I think:

Speed is the biggest advantage!
This game has a clock! You might not see it at first but soon it will be right at the top of your screen. XXX will win in 15 Days. You might think…that’s ok there is lots of time to do something but then you look again and it says 10 Days to your doom. 7…4…well if you arrived here we are in Phase 3 and if you are not prepared there is nothing you can do.

So would it not be nice to do 3 times more in these 15 days then everyone else?
If so then you should think about hiring a smuggler. : )

Then you have to follow up on your first orders. Get the outposts that are left alone so far or fight for some ground in the middle of the field.

Here are the Do Not’s:

• Do not commit to any battles just jet.
• Do not expand too far out.
• Do not get your forces scattered or pile them at one point.
• Do not build a mine.
• But also Do not let your driller count cap.

So what is there left to do?
Prepare for the next phase. See to it that you can defend your outposts. Move your queen if necessary (BUT CAREFUL: make sure you are save to do so).
IF your plan is to rush one player that stands alone, get ready.

Phase 2: (Top or Flop)

Phase 2 starts around day 3. The first outposts are taken and it gets clear who is with whom and such.
Let’s say you were successful during phase one and where able to capture the outposts you set out for.
Now is one of two points in the game where (if not wisely chosen) your allies might betray you. The first battles will have taken place and even if you have won, your forces will be weakened and scattered. You will be vulnerable.
If this is the case and you are being attacked by your ally (or did not even have one to begin with) you will be doubly happy to have a speed specialist. (At least it will help you to survive for a while.)
If your allies are on your side you can still be in trouble when some other deep see dwellers decided to split your territory between them.
IF you stand alone or have too many attackers, there is nothing you can do but negotiate and pray to Neptune to help.
So what are you to do in phase 2?
Well…first of: LOOK at what everyone else is doing and ADJUST your plans accordingly.
• Are you being attack?
• Are there opportunities to expend further?
• What are your next specialist choices?
Make a new plan that plays to your primary goal, which is winning the game!
Do NOT start a “war” with other players and especially do NOT fight at more than one front. If you are in battle due to what took place in phase one then try and end it as soon as possible. Either through negotiation or through overpowering the player with your allies or any pact you can agree to.
This is not because you could not win or anything, it is because of our clock again. Some neptunium junky will drill for it rather sooner than later and even if not, the tides always change and any prolonged battle will hold you from winning. (Remember you win if you can get to 200 Neptunium before everyone else.)
*Note in games with lets say 3 players it might be easy enough to just kill everyone off*
The goal in this phase is to stabilize your territory. Depending on your specialists the playstyle for the rest of the game will be decided. Can you play offensive or do you have to turtle? In both cases your speed specialists are happy to help.
(Or maybe “Can you turtle or do you have to play offensive”???)
If you and your allies are in a good position you should try and steal some profit of other battles around you (make sure only to piss of one side) or maybe stick your heads together, share your resources and expand on the costs of someone else.
You could also build your fist mine here (if you can make sure to keep it) so you don’t reach your driller cap.
In this phase there should be enough going on to have multiple choices still.
Important things to keep an eye open for:
• Driller production
• Enemy specialists
• Enemy movement
• Allies welfare

Don’t be shy to help your allies out with gifting subs or specialists. This will make for loyal bonds and if they survive so will you. It is common to share specialists for example to build a Queen-Killer sub early on. If you are in the position to do so it is always a fun to do so.
When to build your second mine:
The answer is later! Let everyone else commit to their battles first. Build your first mine and wait it out. Then when you have your drillers ready build it. See to it that your third mine is not far off as well. The clock will be at about 5 days now.
There is never nothing to do while waiting. IF you did it right you are not committed to any larger battles yourself. Help out your allies and get ready for phase 3.


Phase 3: (The Drag)

This phase is called the Drag since the space between outposts seems to get exponentially longer until it is not possible to overcome.

It starts when there are about 5 days left but you will notice it only when it is to late.

You have your outposts secure and are about to build your second or third mine. Everything is going well and everyone else is busy with themselves. The clock is ticking in your favor and no one cares.
The last few days of the game will be there before you will notice. The thing about the last few days is, that if you are not prepared, 3 to 5 days will not suffice to gather your troops build your mines and then make enough Neptunium to make it to the top.
Ever noticed that when the game comes to an end there just seems not to be enough time to win? You have everything and more but are distracted by someone you are fighting? Your drillers are scattered and even if you gather everything and build two more mines in a day or two you might not make it to third place?
Luckily we have prepared for this in phase 2! So while everyone else is trying to gather forces to maybe build one or two mines you have the advantage. You are not committed in any battles like everyone else.(well sure sometimes you cant help it) You have all you need already there and can relax. (Never underestimate the others though since there seems always a way to do some harm at least)

Here is a video of me in a game which illustrates the strategy.
I am not the one winning for I made (at least) one crucial mistake. I decided to attack Yellow when I was in a good position in the game. While my neighbors and allies started to mine and secure his territory.
When I started to mine not much later it was already to late.
If I had stabilized my territory as well instead of expending further things might had looked different. But I was hungry for blood since it was an easy start.
https://youtu.be/nqqueVWs3gU

So here is what happened in words:
Purple (last player in) was attacked from all sides. Me and D where late to the action and he started gifting us for not attacking him. *lucky* First we wanted to take out blue next but then allied with him as well. At this point bigD probably decided he had enough territory and was surrounded by allies. So he started to prepare for his mines and went quiet. I was as I said still hungry for more. I was helping out teal and decided to attack yellow. Next to a poor decision I even screwed up the attack and lost my helmsman for a while. I talked with white and we agreed on working together. This was when Pink started to attack me. Which was annoying since everyone else was drilling quickly and I had to fight him off. All my plans where gone and I was right in the middle of the Drag phase. I barley made it to 5th place.

Ok...feel free to comment and tell me what you think about this strategy

If anyone even reached the bottom : D

I reached the bottom! And I agree with your general strategy.
Ha! That took a lot less time to type, than your post.

There are defenitely phases, and also your actions are defenitely based on what happens around you.

The fun thing is that there are always a few people who don't follow this strategy and act as a wild card!

The people who don't follow this strategy usually have a different opening strategy and they are the people who make this game interesting. I'm not saying their strategy is any better than yours, but they certainly do make the game more interesting! Imagine if everyone just followed the strategy here. That would be realllly boring. Of course, its the same for any strategy. So what makes this game interesting is how different people's strategies have their own advantages and disadvantages and how these factors are used by the players to try and secure a win.

OK first of thanks for reading it through : D

Of course I understand that there are players who do play different. It would not work if everyone plays like that.
I wrote this because I always seemed to be short of the neptunium at the end and noticed that the winning players often play more defensive.
As I said myself it would be boring to just sit there and mine till you win. (Most of the time it will not even be possible.) So I am not suggesting doing so, only that you should be aware of how the game will progress. To get a better feeling for it I was fond of structuring it into phases.
I seem to have made the mistake that the post is too long, for I hoped to start a discussion. ^^
If anyone cares to give it a try and report back here I would be happy. I am only just trying it out myself.
There should be more than enough free room for your own interpretation of how to act in what phase so you don’t get bored. (Since there are always more aggressive players it might not even be an option to sit back and relax)

Something that you may want to take into consideration is the 20% Np loss when you lose a mine. In the game I just won, I only built 1 mine. There was another player who shot out way into first by building two mines, then conquering a third far flung mine. He was at ~100Np and on track to win in about 2.5 days. Unfortunately, in his rush to build mines, he didn't have enough defenses, and after a couple battles where mines (in particular the mine he conquered) changed hands a couple times, and he dropped down to ~50Np. I ended up owning all 6 mines by the end of the game, mainly by staying out of most fights during the first half of the game, and then attacking decisively when my opponent overreached.

Edit: My point, which may not have been clear, is that just because the game says X is going to win in 2.5 days is no reason to panic and rush. That game went on for another 5 days from that point.

Uh that sounds like a fun game!
That is a valid point.
If you plan to take his mine on time that is of course always a possibility to turn the game around to your favor. That’s why you should always make doubly sure that you can defend what is yours. (That’s why we plan ahead where our mines should go for example). So maybe I could have described the clock a little different. I was not trying to say that you have to rush when the clock is ticking but that you have to be prepared for it to start end that you have to be prepared when the last few days are there (phase 3).
SO:
If he managed to lose about 50% of his neptunium (so he lost at least 3 mines?) he must have done something very wrong.
As you said he builds his mines early in the game and was not able to defend. That is why I advised to stay with one mine at first. Everyone wants him gone since the clock is ticking and that much too soon. If he had waited until the other players are committed to battles things might have looked different.
To my mind this game you describe is exactly playing to my strategy. You played more or less right how I said you should by staying out of the battles and pick everything up at the end.

This is an excellent guide for beginners to get a general idea of good subterfuge strategy. Very thorough and well thought out. if i convince any of my friends to play i would definitely point them here.

Just keep in mind readers that though these are excellent general suggestions, there will occasionally arise situations where breaking them is your best option. This is a game of predicting your enemy/allies moves as much as it is a game of diplomacy, acting too predictable and your enemies will see right through you. Act too unpredictably, you allies won't trust you.

The lesson that has taken me the longest to learn is that expanding or digging mines too rapidly isn't always your best option. If you're the one putting a clock on the game, you're also making yourself a pretty big target, better to sit in 2nd or 3rd and let other players take out 1st.

Also my play in that subs everywhere vid is a shining example of how making too many alliances early will really limit your options. Sometimes making enemies is as important as making allies.

umpusten wrote:Uh that sounds like a fun game!
That is a valid point.
If you plan to take his mine on time that is of course always a possibility to turn the game around to your favor. That’s why you should always make doubly sure that you can defend what is yours. (That’s why we plan ahead where our mines should go for example). So maybe I could have described the clock a little different. I was not trying to say that you have to rush when the clock is ticking but that you have to be prepared for it to start end that you have to be prepared when the last few days are there (phase 3).
SO:
If he managed to lose about 50% of his neptunium (so he lost at least 3 mines?) he must have done something very wrong.
As you said he builds his mines early in the game and was not able to defend. That is why I advised to stay with one mine at first. Everyone wants him gone since the clock is ticking and that much too soon. If he had waited until the other players are committed to battles things might have looked different.
To my mind this game you describe is exactly playing to my strategy. You played more or less right how I said you should by staying out of the battles and pick everything up at the end.

He lost one Mine when I attacked because he sent too many Drillers to capture a third player's Mine. He then lost that Mine when I took it from him. He then dropped everything to take that same Mine back (leaving 2 generators and a factory undefended - yum). Next day I took it back and held it for the rest of the game.

Probably didn't help that my Sentry + Intelligence Officer + Princess (Captured Queen from a different player.) combo was whittling down his drillers every time he scrambled to reform a defense, and the whole war my Hypnotist + Smuggler were zooming around bolstering my Specialist ranks.

He didn't actually build Mines too early. He went from 0 Mines on Day 3 to 3 Mines on Day 4. (Then back down to 1, and then 0 by Day 7.) He had the most outposts before he went on a Np rush, but burning 200+ drillers in a day will leave defenses sub-optimal. I guess he didn't consider me a threat.

As the saying goes, slow and steady wins the race.

Thanks for the feedback!
I totally agree with pmoney. This game is very versatile and everything can happen. So you should not stick to on path and try to hack your way through it. But to stray from it you need to be on it at first. So if you have an idea of what you should work for in the game you can make better decisions of when or how to change the plan. : )

In my early games I never cared for having a mine. I tried to conquer everything. I still do when I play 3 players non rated games. It is fun but does not get me high in ranking… ; D
You are right about the enemies. If you make too many friends you will have to betray them if you want to get to the top, and that’s no good form. So keep some options open.

@kalzekdor :
I have seen a few of those Sentries myself. Sadly I never had one of my own. But I always love to gather specialists with my Hypnotist! Right now I am in a game where I seem to have luck and gather them with my pirate since my neighbors don’t learn to move their specialists with some backup. I’m only waiting for the hypnotist now. *thrilled*

kalzekdor wrote:Edit: My point, which may not have been clear, is that just because the game says X is going to win in 2.5 days is no reason to panic and rush. That game went on for another 5 days from that point.

Once we had 3 people left in a game (beause 4 people had resigned, only 1 had been eliminated), and then game was supposed to end in less than 10 hours about 10 times because there was this mine which everyone was trying to take without much success (it went on for like another 3 days)