SUBTERFUGE Forums

Hi guys,

I've searched the forums for this scenario and haven't found one that matches it. Apologies if I missed it.

Here's a video of the interaction: https://youtu.be/-P0ObPfC3U0
I am Purple, the enemy is Pink.

As you can see from this, I launch a Double Agent at the enemy Saboteur expecting the Saboteur to act first and redirect my Double Agent back towards the outpost. I then expect the Double Agent to act, destroy the drillers, and switch the ownership of the subs.

Expected outcome: Pink sub with a Double Agent on board moving towards the outpost and a Purple sub with the Saboteur, Assassin, and Smuggler on board. Both subs at 0 drillers.

Actual outcome: Drillers are destroyed, combat is triggered twice (!?! you can see the two blue combat circles expanding from the interactions) and Double Agent effect is cancelled out and subs continue on original paths.

Thoughts? I can't understand why combat would be triggered twice.

I believe this was discussed before. The idea is when the saboteur turns the sub around it becomes a part of that sub, then the sub with the DA turns around. Somehow in this process they interact in combat again, turning both subs back to the original destinations.

When the saboteur redirects the Purple sub, it should become a captured specialist and no longer have effect in the second combat interaction. Per the rulebook:

If the loser has any specialists remaining, they are captured by the winner and either stay at the outpost where combat took place (in sub-to-outpost combat) or are sent to the nearest outpost of the winner (in sub-to-sub combat).

So, how do you define the winner and loser in the Double Agent vs. Saboteur interaction? I guess that's the key.

cactuscactus wrote:When the saboteur redirects the Purple sub, it should become a captured specialist and no longer have effect in the second combat interaction. Per the rulebook:

If the loser has any specialists remaining, they are captured by the winner and either stay at the outpost where combat took place (in sub-to-outpost combat) or are sent to the nearest outpost of the winner (in sub-to-sub combat).

So, how do you define the winner and loser in the Double Agent vs. Saboteur interaction? I guess that's the key.

The saboteur isn't captured its defected by the DA.

Ok, it switches sides because of the DA effect. However, why is combat triggered twice?

The DA effect hits twice, which is where I think the bug lies.

cactuscactus wrote:Ok, it switches sides because of the DA effect. However, why is combat triggered twice?

The DA effect hits twice, which is where I think the bug lies.

Idk why combat occurs twice, but it is what ends up happening in DA vs. sabo.

The Double Agent usually triggers more than once if speed units are on board (there was another forum post in which a Lieutenant/General triggered the DA twice).
The enemy has a Smuggler on board, meaning that after being converted to purple's side, the smuggler has a triple tick movement speed, going towards purple, while pink now has a regular DA going back; they collide again, switching sides, and I can only assume a 10 minute marker has passed, allowing the now purple sub to use the triple speed to pass the pink DA. (If I can remember, there have been 3 instances of sub passing posted in the bug forum).

To me, that seems like a big in the collision detection.

If the first combat occurs at a single point in space and both subs leave that point in space at the same time, but at different speeds then they should never collide again. It's pretty simple to draw out the motions of the subs and see how they'd never collide again.

This assumes the collision mask is not based on the size of the sprite, but a point central to the sprite. I'd guess the devs can shed more light on that, if they check out this thread.

I'd like to mention that unless your opponent had a general, sending 1 driller out after your DA would have captured all the specialists.