Game balance ideas :o

Strategy, feedback, or anything SUBTERFUGE-related
Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:03 am

  • With regards to global specs, im against the nerfs and im going with buffing the scrub specialists. Also, i believe the engineer is fine the way it is. The underwhelming/niche specs i believe are war hero, diplomat, elder, infiltrator, and thief.

    War Hero : keeping the kill 20 drillers in every combat, add a combo-like mechanism where for each successive combat, the kill count increases by 5 to a maximum of 30(?). Option 1: Kill count stays at 30 until War hero switches from offensive to defensive and vice versa. Option 2: Kill count does not stay at 30 but the combo is cyclic. So, first 20 then 25 then 30 then back to 20. (sounds interesting right right?)

    Diplomat : keep the release captured specs ability, add a speed ability. Every sub that is headed to an outpost that has a diplomat is sped up to x1.5(?) speed factor. Every sub except an attacking sub, so gifts could be sped up and rallying your drillers could be sped up. (neat buff i know 8-) )

    Elder : keep the no specs participate in combat ability, add a negative speed ability. Every attacking sub is slowed down to a sum of 15%(?) of the original total travel time. The count could be something like the attacking sub travels at x0.5 factor from the moment it takes off, and it stays at x0.5 speed until it's travel "debt" is paid off. And if the attacking sub has helmsman and etc the speed will resume back to x2.0 speed. (i know this sounds kinda sketchy but there isnt any spec that slows down subs, maybe the devs purposely disregarded sub slowing abilities, idk)

    Infiltrator : Ive made a separate thread on this before (see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2689). The gist of it is keep the infiltrator the same, add in an ability where by if the infiltrator is captured he still somehow gets rid of shields, maybe some sort of tinkerer debuff, and if the infiltrator is released he gets to travel x3.0(?) faster perhaps.

    Thief : Lets compare the Thief to King. I understand that the core belief of the thief is that it scales based on the opposing strength. In contrast, the king based on the local (idk whats the word) strength. So, i believe that the thief should have a combat ability that is equal or stronger than the king. Hypothetically, the king has a multiplier of 1.33 on the drillers (1 every 3), whereas the thief is 0.03 less at 1.3 multiplier (kinda). The king has stronger combat potential, the combat ability works defensively and its even global (disregarding the -20 shields). So im saying the thief lacks in versatility as well. But i am against just adding some boring ol speed buff as if we didnt already have enough of speed specs :roll: . Maybe make it 1.4 strong so thats 20% stolen or 1 out of every 5 with a base minimum of 5 stolen. (i think the base minimum is crucial tho) SO, idk :D .

    Numbers with (?) means i am not certain that that number is balanced. :>

    Buffing these specs however, does not address what TopKilla has brought up that is, the lack of incentive for eliminating players on top of the heightened difficulty to eliminate someone that has turtled up or a grieving kingmaker. My opinion is that turtles are not a fundamental flaw because i believe a player should only be eliminated if said player has made an error in judgement and mistake, so a player that has played a perfect defense should survive via turtling. The grieving kingmaker is another story tho, i think this issue can only be addressed with the whole "spec overstacking" problem which everyone on the forums already discussed. So id rather not discuss that here :) .

    PS i think martyr is really underwhelming too and i think she just blows up too easily to be utilized tactically. so im hoping she only blows up if she loses the combat or meets another spec to emphasize mutual destruction. (too much to ask for i know but cmon a martyr hire? its game losing.)

    PS PS now that i think about it the DA is ultra niche too, JUST MAKE HIM ONLY VISIBLE WHEN TRAVELING IN A SUB, INVISIBLE WHEN ON AN OUTPOST ONLY AN INTELLIGENCE OFFICER CAN SPOT AN INVISIBLE DA HAHA :lol: :lol:
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    p34chy
     
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Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:50 am

  • Those are some interesting and new ideas. I'll try to go point by point. Also, I'm generally critical of most changes so don't take what I say as an insult to you or that these are completely bad ideas, but it's just how I see them.

    1. It's a nice buff, but it still doesn't really fix his problem. He can be a beast early game, but when people start growing and outputting 200-300+ drillers per day and probably a few kings on top of that (although I guess not anymore :() his effect is pretty weak and he might as well have just stayed a sentry.

    2.he's......kind of niche I guess, but I see him as being extremely effective at his niche. He combo's well with a few things, and can rescue you if you get outplayed or mess up. Increasing speed to his outpost would only make general spams more terrifying as they could hit so much faster now. Diplo is basically fine as is

    3. I'll be the first to admit the elder is really lame. Slowing attacks down isn't really what he needs though. His not blocking globals is the issue. The problem then becomes if he blocks globals he becomes the best thing ever and all you need is a smuggler + elder to be 90% of the players who don't have the intelligence/time to make 2 attacks land at the same time

    4. I don't really want my infiltrator captured. His point is to be offensive and help me take bases. Sure he's not very good at it, but it's better than him doing basically the same thing except over time. It's just not the right perk for the infiltrator.

    5. First.....you want the thief......the unpromotable, single hire spec.......to have more local destruction than a king? Am I getting that right? Second, it's been bounced around to death about a thief bumping up to at least 20% the problem arises ultimately in (say it with me) stacking! 3 thieves on a sub will then steal more than 50% of the opposing force (I think you can see the issue in that) the thief is basically fine as is as well. He pairs well with offensive speed such as a helmsman or general. Actually a great pairing with war hero if people ever hired that. I do like the idea of a minimum steal number though. Just so he's always got some effectiveness.
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Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:24 pm

  • p34chy wrote:With regards to global specs, im against the nerfs and im going with buffing the scrub specialists. Also, i believe the engineer is fine the way it is. The underwhelming/niche specs i believe are war hero, diplomat, elder, infiltrator, and thief.

    War Hero : keeping the kill 20 drillers in every combat, add a combo-like mechanism where for each successive combat, the kill count increases by 5 to a maximum of 30(?). Option 1: Kill count stays at 30 until War hero switches from offensive to defensive and vice versa. Option 2: Kill count does not stay at 30 but the combo is cyclic. So, first 20 then 25 then 30 then back to 20. (sounds interesting right right?)
    I like this idea a lot. But it shouldn't be cyclic. Just make it +1 per battle and goes up forever. This way, it slowly gains power throughout the game so it can keep up with the % based specs that are more powerful later in the game. The only problem with this would be that people will just have an ally send a bunch of single subs to make it better. To help that, it should be so that it only gets more power if all of its power is used. So it only goes to 21 if it kills 20 drillers in 1 battle.

    Diplomat : keep the release captured specs ability, add a speed ability. Every sub that is headed to an outpost that has a diplomat is sped up to x1.5(?) speed factor. Every sub except an attacking sub, so gifts could be sped up and rallying your drillers could be sped up. (neat buff i know 8-) )
    Diplomat doesn't need an overall buff. Diplomat is only good if you either lost a crucial battle that your invested a lot of specs in, or you are using it with a general. But in those situations, its very powerful.

    Elder : keep the no specs participate in combat ability, add a negative speed ability. Every attacking sub is slowed down to a sum of 15%(?) of the original total travel time. The count could be something like the attacking sub travels at x0.5 factor from the moment it takes off, and it stays at x0.5 speed until it's travel "debt" is paid off. And if the attacking sub has helmsman and etc the speed will resume back to x2.0 speed. (i know this
    sounds kinda sketchy but there isnt any spec that slows down subs, maybe the devs purposely disregarded sub slowing abilities, idk)
    Last thing we need is for subterfuge to get even slower. Maybe cap it at x1 speed so it never goes below standard speed. I think stopping globals would be better. as a turtle, I had like 30 shield and 40 drillers and with a general+diplo I stopped a 250 driller sub with an elder. The guy didn't know that elders didn't stop globals. I think making elders stop globals will make them decent enough. And since the king and general is the only global that affects combat, this will be a decent nerf for them. That would be a lot better of a nerf than the last king nerf.

    Infiltrator : Ive made a separate thread on this before (see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2689). The gist of it is keep the infiltrator the same, add in an ability where by if the infiltrator is captured he still somehow gets rid of shields, maybe some sort of tinkerer debuff, and if the infiltrator is released he gets to travel x3.0(?) faster perhaps.
    I'm not a fan of him being good when captured and the quick release just makes him good for general+diplo strat.

    Thief : Lets compare the Thief to King. I understand that the core belief of the thief is that it scales based on the opposing strength. In contrast, the king based on the local (idk whats the word) strength. So, i believe that the thief should have a combat ability that is equal or stronger than the king. Hypothetically, the king has a multiplier of 1.33 on the drillers (1 every 3), whereas the thief is 0.03 less at 1.3 multiplier (kinda). The king has stronger combat potential, the combat ability works defensively and its even global (disregarding the -20 shields). So im saying the thief lacks in versatility as well. But i am against just adding some boring ol speed buff as if we didnt already have enough of speed specs :roll: . Maybe make it 1.4 strong so thats 20% stolen or 1 out of every 5 with a base minimum of 5 stolen. (i think the base minimum is crucial tho) SO, idk :D .
    I like the minimum steal but no % buffs.

    Numbers with (?) means i am not certain that that number is balanced. :>

    Buffing these specs however, does not address what TopKilla has brought up that is, the lack of incentive for eliminating players on top of the heightened difficulty to eliminate someone that has turtled up or a grieving kingmaker. My opinion is that turtles are not a fundamental flaw because i believe a player should only be eliminated if said player has made an error in judgement and mistake, so a player that has played a perfect defense should survive via turtling. The grieving kingmaker is another story tho, i think this issue can only be addressed with the whole "spec overstacking" problem which everyone on the forums already discussed. So id rather not discuss that here :) .

    PS i think martyr is really underwhelming too and i think she just blows up too easily to be utilized tactically. so im hoping she only blows up if she loses the combat or meets another spec to emphasize mutual destruction. (too much to ask for i know but cmon a martyr hire? its game losing.)

    PS PS now that i think about it the DA is ultra niche too, JUST MAKE HIM ONLY VISIBLE WHEN TRAVELING IN A SUB, INVISIBLE WHEN ON AN OUTPOST ONLY AN INTELLIGENCE OFFICER CAN SPOT AN INVISIBLE DA HAHA :lol: :lol:
    This is just bad. DA and martyr are good situational specs. no buff needed.



    But on the idea of game balancing, I think the best idea is to make kings only work in driller only battles. Other globals aren't op because they have limitations. The admiral isn't op because you need specs in battle for a good attack. Tycoon isn't op because if it's factory heavy, you will be quickly stopped by power cap and if its gen heavy, there isn't as much production to best make use of the % based bonus. MOE directly nerfs your prod so nothing op with that. Engineer actually requires you to win the battles to be useful and to be more useful, you gotta risk losing him by including him in the fight.

    The MOE is underpowered. he could use a buff by making him not slow production. Maybe make his ability to be 15 power per spec at his outpost or maybe 100 power + 15 per generator owned.
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